General Consultant Discussion

You may not be - but I am officially in the era of the ""Quarterly upgrade quote request"". This is where the customer asks on a quarterly basis for an upgrade quote only to disappear without a word. Until next quarter. Then when convenient for them (usually during your busiest time) they reappear to ask when you can schedule to perform their upgrade - and the sooner the better. All for a quote they never indicated yes/no. I'm following Mark Kotyla's advice and have started to issue subsequent quotes at a higher dollar amount (the last one I reissued was 20% because it was the 3rd time I'd quoted it and the last quote was for summer work). Thankfully most of these customers are sold D or F level customers so if they leave in a huff they become someone else's problem.

One of these types of customers called today irate that (a) I quoted a lead time to start and (b) for the price I better be able to convert ""every single one of our custom reports"" which I replied ""sure we'll create a list before we start"" which did not seem to sit well. I guess these types of customers always want some holdback reason not to pay you...

The first complaint is petty and show's a lack of planning ability on the customers part. That should be a significant warning to you. Regarding the second, we always do a review of each customer's installation before we quote an upgrade so we can include a fairly detailed scope. The scope lists all custom reports, customized forms, customized screens, UDF's, VI jobs, 3rd party add-ons, number of company databases, and any other scope modifiers we can find that are included in the project. We state very clearly that anything not specifically identified in the scope document is not included and would be subject to a change order. The client signs off on the list (and if the project is > $7,500.00, pre-pay the fees) before we initiate the project.

When we have an inquiry regarding an upgrade, we provide them with a document of our process which includes a paid pre-upgrade analysis and the applicable supported platform matrix. (We identify the same details as Shawn outlined above.) When the analysis is completed a detailed upgrade scope is provided to the client. If the client chooses not to move forward with an upgrade, the analysis is still billable. We have used this process for several years and it sets the expectations up front with the client and typically when a client agrees to the billable analysis, they are committed to the upgrade process.

@PamScott - what do you folks charge for this pre-upgrade analysis? I like the idea. I like the idea a lot. @ShawnSlavin - I used to follow your path but I am running into so many casual requests for ""hey could you quote us for an upgrade"" that I'm unwilling to invest any free time into the analysis and quote. I'm very interested however in Pam's feedback (and maybe you are being paid for the initial analysis too) that they get paid to produce the upgrade quote. Without knowing the answer to how much Pam charges I'd WAG that I would probably tier my costs based on # of users (starts at) and it might go up if there was extensive third party or reporting. Up to 5 users - $ 750 6 to 10 users - $ 1,000 10 to 20 users - $ 1,500 21 to 40 users - $ 2,500 41+ - $ 5,000 Note: For a customer who found us on the web and asked for info on upgrading our price is generally $2,500 (take it or leave it) to do the analysis and quote. We find a high majority of the web inquiries try to sandbag us into underbidding (the people asking for the quote usually know there some hidden problem that they hope we will underbid). The bane of my existence is the customer who emails ""can you quote us and tell us when you could do the upgrade"" --- and then disappears off the face of the earth after I've spent 4 to 6 hours on analysis and quoting. Very interested in both your feedback. This is a hot issue for me.

@WayneSchulz, we don't charge for the assessment but we only do them for clients who are we have the ROR for. When we pick up an orphan, they are required to purchase a system assessment so we can get familiar with their implementation. We cover what they have installed, hardware and network environment, system configuration, etc. This usually results in additional work and gets us what we need for future upgrades. When in later years they ask for an upgrade, we go back to our previous documentation and then update it with comparing it to their current environment. We don't do upgrades for customer we don't own the ROR for.

Another learning point - somewhat related - when customers purchase an additional module there (sadly) should be an optional cost if they want it installed. The process of them finding their disks then inserting the new registration keys is never as smooth as it sounds like it should be.

OMG, I just ran into this the other day with a client where we needed to modify a customer statement and AR invoice. They couldn't find their Crystal CD. I had to transfer it to them via Dropbox. I took 3 hours to create a directory in my dropbox folder, share it to them, help them enroll in dropbox, set up dropbox on their system, wait for the files to pull down, just to modify the reports (which only took 20 mintues). Big PITA!!!! Thankfully we always billed risk factors into every project for Unknown, Unknowns.

I just priced one of these out where the customer purchased a new module. I indicated for no money they could instal themselves. And gave them the link to DL v4.5. Or if we do it then it's $250. 1/2 the time I'm probably underbid. 1/2 the time overbid. In the end hopefully the $$ is fair over time. It is not longer a 2 second thing to install a module (especially if the customer number changes and you have any third parties tied to that number). But I do like to give the no cost option.

I know I'll catch grief, but our pre-upgrade analysis is not fixed fee. When a client requests an upgrade they acknowledge that the time involved is typically 2 to 5 hours and I would say our typical is 2.5 to 3 hours. We strive to show the value in the analysis and that we are looking to minimize any gottcha's during the upgrade. This also allows us to provide a detailed scope so they know exactly what to expect and what is not included in the upgrade. I will note that we are currently looking to implement SLA's and are considering having the pre-upgrade analysis a part of the SLA. Regarding services when a client adds a new module...when I quote a client for a new module we include services for installation, setup, and training. This is a seperate line item. If they are adding additional users, we also add a line item for installation if they choose for us to assist.

Thanks Pam - good info. I'm ok with rolling in one free upgrade quote to a customer on an SLA - however I would make it one per VERSION (not per year). I've been burned badly this year by a few larger upgrades who at the last moment pulled the plug on the upgrade for a variety of environmental reasons (busy, acquisition, budget). What I want to do is stop the periodic request of an upgrade quote. I've learned from years ago that anytime a service is free that customers have no qualms repeatedly asking another helping of free.... I am also somewhat wary of painting the Sage 100 upgrade process (to a customer) as being this huge fearful event. Even though we know it can be I don't think it's good business for us to start training customers to be afraid of the upgrade. I just don't know a way around this because Sage is not making the upgrade easier and as they continue to sell more add-ins to the core ERP the upgrade will get increasingly more time consuming with more opportunity for show stopper bugs. BTW - I've cut WAY back on my scope and description of upgrade services to my existing customers. After having issued dozens (and dozens) of detailed upgrade quotes I found (a) nobody read them and (b) it was VERY rare that I had a problem (and these were $7,500+ upgrades). Instead of issuing lots of paper to customers (which none read) I've focussed on gathering data internally to my Basecamp project management. I do feel a customer is due a free idea of what an upgrade would cost and in my mind something like ""A single version upgrade typically starts at $ x,xxx"" is adequate.

I also need to figure out a clear way to communicate that the pricing that is provided for a project - whether an upgrade or another type of Sage 100 project - is good if we START the project. If the customer begins a DIY project and screws it up then out pricing will be higher. I have one customer right now where we've been talking (and I've been researching) about changing country codes (and related fields) by using VI. They apparently got the message clearly on how to do it because now they want to purchase VI and take a swing at it. The main point I want to make going forward is that if I've quoted $1,500 to perform the project and the customer tries to take a swing at it and misses -- that the same project to clean up the mess might be $3,000 to $ 5,000. This is definitely getting to be a larger problem and I somehow need to set the expectation from the start that the price the customer is provided is good for us to perform the initial task between mm/dd/yy and mm/dd/yy and once the quote expires so does our pricing guarantee and subsequent pricing will be higher. I would extend this to the customer who believes they have their own Sage 100 disks and will re-key their registration codes and load the module on their own. Maybe we'd only charge $250 if planned in advance but if the customer fails at the task and calls in a panic the simple act of loading a new module might be a $1,250 problem because I have to stop the 4 other projects I'm working on for whatever period of time it takes to resolve the customer's problem.

And just got the call from the customer who emailed on Monday that they ""needed to buy bar code"" because on Wed (today) they were implementing Scanforce and WO Scan. Naturally nobody wants to take responsibility for installing Bar Code because once you touch the install you own the install until you get everything running (customer also has multi-bin). The worst request I have to respond to are the ""hey we know what we need - please order it"". Next time I'm definitely following Pam's track of also pricing in the installation. And in my view there are two prices for install -- (a) You schedule in advance - $250 or (b) You call us in a panic when the vendor is there and suddenly want us to install at the pre-planned price -- only now since I have to cancel my day the price is $1,500.