Thank you again for another round of great feedback,
@Wayne Schulz - this is super helpful for me as someone who has only worked with specific Sage 100 VARs (Blytheco, Pabian Partners, etc.). Each has their own challenges with CRM - both from a selling and delivery standpoint that align with several of the comments you've provided. Depending on how far you/Sage ERP VARs want to take the conversation, this is also where it starts to make more sense to build a relationship with a CRM specialist (like you have) and "outsource" to them to handle all things CRM and simply collect both margin and referral fees for sending CRM opportunities their way. It minimizes the time you're expected to spend on "CRM stuff," increases potential profitability, a but still introduces points of contention with any form of integration to Sage 100.
To a couple of your points:
- In worse situations, I become the unpaid complaint department - this tends to happen more frequently with integrations that undergo ownership changes or adhere to the model of multiple "account managers" ( I'm convinced 90% of these account manager jobs exist only to push the buck around the company ).
- I legitimately cackled at your comment about account manager jobs, lol.
- Sage is making zero point zero dollar investments into new non-manufacturing functionality for Sage 100 - so be prepared to disclose to the customer that what they see is what they'll be paying $$ + annual 10% increases a year for
- To be fair, Sage stopped pushing investment dollars into Sage CRM long before it dialed down its investment in Sage 100. It felt like a lot of the oxygen that was in the Sage 100 VAR ecosystem and ISV ecosystem left the room once Intacct began being pushed as the premier ERP solution. Sage CRM's health has been directly tied to the various Sage ERP VAR ecosystems, and with all of them collectively reactively pushing or entirely neglecting it - the growth has been minimized.
Sage has invested a bit more than in recent years into CRM
- As a consultant making money from a multi-year customer relationship, it's our job to guide the customer through the landmines. And there are many.
- This is actually the point I was hoping to elicit from someone and learning more about this and processes Sage 100 VARs employ when a customer does raise their hand about CRM. The Sage 100 VARs know their customers better than anyone. They are the first trusted entity to have their fingers on the pulse of the company to know:
- a) the maturity level of the customer
- b) how defined are their processes
- c) how savvy is their workforce with technology
- d) what is the strategic focus of the customer
- e) how structured/metrics-driven is the organization and how does that tied back to where they're investing money in technology, etc.
- Depending on all of the above factors, that generally dictates where I suggest starting the conversation around CRM. Relying on the relationship that exists b/t the Sage ERP VAR and the customer to navigate the conversation of CRM is tricky. But getting the customer on a CRM solution that allows them to "test the waters," or completely invest in (depending on their front office maturity) is something most Sage ERP VARs either start or quickly flip to a CRM specialist to minimize time spent on non-billable engagements for things that they don't specialize.
Thank you again, Wayne - this is great!
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Basil Malik
e:
basil@ss-adv.comp: (918)600-8700
"Whatever you are, try to be a good one."
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-08-2023 10:12
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: What would be helpful?
What do you do when a customer begins asking about CRM?
First, make sure they are aware that there are additional costs. This solves 50% of the curiosity seekers.
I will bring a CRM consultant to meet and quote if they are still interested.
I don't get involved at all - unless paid - for non-customers.
Do you steer them away from Sage CRM entirely, or does it remain a part of the conversation?
I leave that to the CRM specialist. If the customer asks about Sage CRM - especially if they request their "free" license - I tend to keep the conversation on Sage CRM because I make zero point zero dollars in either case. Hence, it never is really on my radar to get very involved.
From a VAR perspective:
- More meetings to sit through that are very tough to add value to and, therefore, unlikely to be billed/collected
- Long term, I won't make a profit and will only add risk/complexity to the customer relationship
- More meetings that I can't bill
- In worse situations, I become the unpaid complaint department - this tends to happen more frequently with integrations that undergo ownership changes or adhere to the model of multiple "account managers" ( I'm convinced 90% of these account manager jobs exist only to push the buck around the company ).
- Sage is making zero point zero dollar investments into new non-manufacturing functionality for Sage 100 - so be prepared to disclose to the customer that what they see is what they'll be paying $$ + annual 10% increases a year for
- The model of selling a highly profitable software license and using that margin as compensation for meetings with the prospect/customer is gone, over, done.
- And it's never coming back.
- It's a great fairy tale to recommend setting up a paid consultation with customers to "help" them buy CRM.
- My experience is that unless you have done 5+ deals and can tell stories of 5+ happy customers and how you helped them specifically, don't even bother engaging or proposing a paid engagement. Why should the customer pay you to learn on their dime? Customers aren't crazy. At least not when it comes to paying us our fee.
Much of this is Sage's somewhat unique problem. As a consultant making money from a multi-year customer relationship, it's our job to guide the customer through the landmines. And there are many.
Microsoft has a similar situation though they have a substantially larger installed base to dull the pain.
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Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Moodus, CT
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-08-2023 09:46
From: Basil Malik
Subject: What would be helpful?
THAT is fantastic insight, @Wayne Schulz! I don't have a counter-position or anything along those lines as all points are 100% valid. I sit on the North American PAC (which includes @Dan Cousins) and the Global Sage CRM PAC - and speculation as to why Sage 100 VARs don't push CRM is something that's discussed at great length.
People get caught up in the "I need a CRM" that they don't consider the implications of what it means to implement one or what the scope of that project should be. Is the complexity of implementing CRM worth the potential for ROI, cost avoidance, or process efficiencies?
I have a follow-up question and some comments to your points. The question: What do you do when a customer begins asking about CRM? Do you steer them away from Sage CRM entirely or does it remain a part of the conversation? (I resell more than Sage CRM, so I'm curious how you navigate the request when you are reacting to it.)
The comments, I've highlighted below inline in red below.
- Sage is at a disadvantage with CRM because it's a bolt-on and not built-in
- 100% agreed. Additionally, integration to Sage 100 has not been made easy. You have three options - native integration, Greytrix, or build your own (i.e. Microsoft 365 Connector). Each of which has their own considerations/challenges, and it does not alleviate any of the other points you raised (added complexity to upgrades, additional cost, etc.).
- CRM is yet another thing to upgrade - at additional cost - come N-2 upgrade time
- Indeed. And depending on how Sage 100 is integrated with that CRM (Sage CRM and other platforms all share similar challenges), there are other implications that add additional complexity to the upgrade.
- Many customers aren't really sure what they're buying or how to use it
- This is actually a common response. It's why I began shifting CRM deployments from "you can have whatever you want" to, "here are the common things most Sage 100 customers ask for. Use these pre-defined packages of functionality and we can continue building value once you have a better understanding of Sage CRM." This "solution"-style implementation of Sage CRM (as an example) resonates far more with customers than the old addage of "CRM can do anything... so long as you're willing to invest." Demystifying the ambiguous into something more tangible and specific when it comes to CRM tends to work out far better.
- ...the customer has to pay a CRM consultant to install/maintain on a SQL server.
- Don't forget that the complexity of SQL licensing is still lost on many and introduces risk of license compliance and fees from Microsoft if you buy the wrong type of SQL Server license.
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Basil Malik
e: basil@ss-adv.com
p: (918)600-8700
"Whatever you are, try to be a good one."
Original Message:
Sent: 02-07-2023 21:31
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: What would be helpful?
That's a lot of questions so I'll summarize my overall feeling about CRM into this:
- Sage is at a disadvantage with CRM because it's a bolt-on and not built-in
- It's hard to make money at CRM unless I do more than one or two a year - so working with CRM never becomes more than reactionary and only when a customer insists
- CRM is yet another thing to upgrade - at additional cost - come N-2 upgrade time
- Many customers aren't really sure what they're buying or how to use it
What it all boils down to is that I don't make much - if anything - and my consulting efforts are more complicated with an integration that the customer has to pay a CRM consultant to install/maintain on a SQL server. This also adds costs and some complexity to upgrades.
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Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Moodus, CT