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V2021….Standard vs Advanced

  • 1.  V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 14:24
    I am in the process of upgrading a big chunk of customers into versions 2020 & 2021… Would there be any reason why I SHOULD NOT change them all from Standard to Advance??? The performance issue is really convincing me to move them all to Advance…. Any thoughts????

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    Lourdes Sobrino
    LU² DSD Puerto Rico
    Guaynabo Puerto Rico
    787.485.9638
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  • 2.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 14:45
    Besides the pain of figuring out the hoops to jump through for contacting Sage???  If they have small user count, I might think twice.  Is it worth the effort for less than three or four?  If their server is trending old, small on the memory?  Are they hosting Sage somewhere?

    I am trying to upgrade my users to Advanced, but others aren't as gun ho.

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    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member -140,000,000 is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
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  • 3.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 15:39

     

    Two things I can think of

    1.       Make sure that they have been moved to the subscription based pricing.  I made the mistake of telling a client that they could move to the Advanced Platform without any Sage fees, only to discover that this was one of our clients that chose not to move to subscription pricing. They were still on maintenance, but not on subscription and Sage wanted over 10k to switch to the Advanced Platform. I had to go back to the client and break the news to them. Of course it goes back onto them for not switching, but I still wish I would have checked before telling them.

    2.       Scripting – we moved a client to Advanced and they had written their own scripts with pop-ups and message boxes (some asking for user-input). Message boxes work differently in advanced so the message box scripts had to be modified to work on Advanced. The "user-input" pop-ups had to be changed significantly to work on advanced; those we changed to use UDF on the screen where the user entered the input prior to running the script.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • 4.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 21:21
    I hope people comment on there experiences to expand on @Sue Bennett 's post.  This sounds like a MAJOR big deal but I don't recall seeing much on it.


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    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member -140,000,000 is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
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  • 5.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-27-2021 13:22
    Edited by Alnoor Cassim 10-27-2021 17:06
    To add a specific example on what @Sue Bennett mentioned, I've run into several customer​s on Advanced, who since upgrading to v2019+, made a huge huge stink about the History tab in I/M Item Maintenance being extremely slow. The History grid loads (and in some case has to re-load) very slowly and this is troublesome for people who are in that screen all day long. Coincidentally, some of these customers also use Shipping Data Entry with 300+ orders line and it is extremely slow there too, even with the 2020.1 hotfix installed. In all the scenarios:

    * Running in Mas90 mode (running as Standard) is faster (after applying hotfix LM7002-T for v2021 or LM6021T for v2020)
    * Running Advanced directly on the Sage server is faster.
    * Running Advanced the normal way is slow.

    I've reviewed all the underlying code for the History tab, comparing it to v2016 and v2015 where they upgraded from where it wasn't slow on Advanced, and the code is the same. It appears something fundamental changed with how grids load in Advanced in versions 2019 - 2021.

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    Alnoor Cassim

    Email: alnoor@asifocus.com
    Ph: 949-689-9887
    Orange County, CA
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  • 6.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-27-2021 15:25

    As Alnoor says, grid loading, and any kind of access where batches are enabled (also a grid) is quite slow on Advanced in V2019 - 2021.  (We didn't have this issue in 2018 – it only started with v2019).  It does take between 6 and 10 seconds to load batches, when you're in a Data Entry screen where batches have been enabled. When you're trying to print anything where a batch has been enabled, folks end up clicking on a menu item multiple times, thinking their first "click" didn't register.  Eventually, the batch screen comes up, but then so do 3 or 4 others where the client clicked the menu item again.  Double clicking on an Invoice in AR used to take no time at all to load, and now you can count to at least 6 before that invoice comes to the screen.

     

    Sage thought they had narrowed the problem down to the client's Remote RDP access, but turns out they didn't clear their redirected printers when they tested.  (And re-directed printers is also an issue on Advanced – we've solved that by using TS Print however, and that works well.)  So – it wasn't the remote app after all.  And – sadly - we did just receive a note from Nathan Shaw, after he had tested the client data for a little over a week.  And the note said: "We can duplicate the problem, but we've discussed the issue with Engineering and there is nothing that can be done.  So, there is nothing we can do to speed up the system." 

     

    That's it.  That's all we have – as I mentioned, our IT Team is still attempting to see if the problem is with the Terminal Server or not – but something did indeed change with V2019.

     

    Sue Bennett | President

    Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.

    P. 503 620 3484 | F. 503 620 2765

    12559 SW 69th Ave | Portland, OR  97223

    Email address | www.benpor.com

    Bennett/Porter Blog facebook twitter

     

    The information in this email and any attachments is considered confidential. This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege. It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any and all copies from your system.

     

     






  • 7.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 12:36
    Anyone know if TSPrint will help when Sage is installed on workstations and a terminal server is not being used?  I have a client that has Advanced 2020 on server 2019 and 2 years later they are still asking me what can they do to speed up printing.  They started out with Advanced 2019 and they are now on Advanced 2020.

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    [Michele] [Herzog] [CPA,CITP, CGMA]
    [Overland Park] [KS]
    [816-520-1365]
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  • 8.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 12:59
    @Michele Herzog - What specifically is slow?  Actual printing, generation?  Everything check out with the CSodbc driver?  How many users?​  Would SS3003-ABC pertain?  Very old document but perhaps relevant??  And I attached another majorly old document that may be helpful.  How about AV settings?

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    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member -140,000,000 is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    SS3003-ABC.pdf   92 KB 1 version
    pdf
    SageTalkSlowNetwork.pdf   188 KB 1 version


  • 9.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 13:04
    @Michele Herzog  Is the C/S ODBC service / app installed?​

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    Doug Higgs
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    (312) 315-0960
    Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
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  • 10.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 14:56
    Yes, the CS ODBC is installed.  All anti-virus has been looked at and all the tasks on KB 30079 have been followed.  This KB is on slow performance.  The result is exactly what Alnoor stated.  Printing directly on the server is fine, printing from the workstations is slow.

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    [Michele] [Herzog] [CPA,CITP, CGMA]
    [Overland Park] [KS]
    [816-520-1365]
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  • 11.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 21:46
    How about uninstalling the CSODBC service (or shutting it off) and run it as a desktop app?

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    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member -140,000,000 is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-29-2021 00:55
    I have tried that also and it makes no difference.  I really think it is an unknown network setup issue.  I have had IT create a new server on 3 different clients over the last 3 years with different issues and the new server works fine.  I have told their IT department this and they will not acknowledge this is a possible resolution.

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    [Michele] [Herzog] [CPA,CITP, CGMA]
    [Overland Park] [KS]
    [816-520-1365]
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-29-2021 11:51

    The CS ODBC didn't make any difference for us – Sage did have us enable it, then disable it, with no difference in speed on Advanced.

     

    Sue Bennett | President

    Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.

    P. 503 620 3484 | F. 503 620 2765

    12559 SW 69th Ave | Portland, OR  97223

    Email address | www.benpor.com

    Bennett/Porter Blog facebook twitter

     

    The information in this email and any attachments is considered confidential. This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege. It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorized to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any and all copies from your system.

     

     






  • 14.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 13:29
    @Alnoor Cassim, is Sage still using a threshold number to toggle when a grid is hidden while loading rows into it?  Maybe it was increased or not being set like it was in the past.​

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    David Speck II
    Tennessee Software Solutions
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  • 15.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-28-2021 15:27
    Edited by Alnoor Cassim 10-28-2021 15:27
    David - That's a good brainstorm! I'm going to say I don't think so but it's worth checking out. It's odd how it only occurs with Advanced so it's like something on the client side changed starting with v2019, like a pvx system parameter related to grid load mins/maxs or memory size, although those aren't really client-side parameters. You know the symptom is also reminiscent of some type of security mechanism in play, as if AES 128 or 256 bit encryption is in place for the entire system instead of just where there is PII enforcement or when sending emails thru Paperless.

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    Alnoor Cassim

    Email: alnoor@asifocus.com
    Ph: 949-689-9887
    Orange County, CA
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  • 16.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 15:33
    Lourdes - our very most unhappy clients are the ones running on Advanced on current versions of Sage 100.  Sage has "fixed" the Standard version as far as speed goes, but they are unable to fix the speed in Advanced.  We've been working with Sage for at least 4 months now, and we've considered taking the client from Advanced back to Standard, as Sage works much faster on Standard.  The speed issue with Advanced is absolutely terrible.  (Which is also one of the reasons that Sage Partner Cloud only uses Standard - Advanced is not supported on the Sage Cloud.) 

    The SPM Requirements call for a Terminal Server to use Advanced, but our IT Team is now in the process of attempting to install everything on one server (rather than 2) to see if that makes any difference whatsoever.  I absolutely would NOT take your clients from Standard to Advanced - they will be so unhappy with the speed issues on Advanced.

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    Sue Bennett
    Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
    Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.
    Tigard OR
    503.620.3484
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  • 17.  RE: V2021….Standard vs Advanced

    Posted 10-26-2021 17:35
    My biggest client of 30 users has been using Advanced for as long as they have been using the system and they started with Mas90 C/S way back when.... But always a separate Mas server and Terminal Server and really have never had any speed issues...  Somewhere around 4.30 (Mas 200 at this point), we went to V/M machines on VMWare and most recently as we transitioned to Sage 100 advanced we stayed with V/M's but now on AWS platform's ... the users are using Mac workstations running Microsoft Remote Desktop and we are running Sage 100 as a published app ... that means, users do not get a desktop.  They login to T/S but instead of a desktop, they only get Sage 100 ... sort of looks like an app installed on their Mac's ... The advantage of this is tremendously less resource usage on the T/S and you don't have the users streaming music/video or downloading god knows what onto the T/S ... and w/ AWS servers, should we need to bump up the resources, (memory, disk space ...), we just do it and drive on.  I cannot say everyone would have the same results, but it is working here.

    Randy

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    Randy Marion
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