90 Minds Community

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Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut
------------------------------

I'll go first - 


The way I'm handling it now is when I have some knowledge of what the enhancement typically costs I give a "Starts at" type price - usually in the form of "This isn't a firm quote which only Sage or the ISV can provide - but based on my experience if you receive a quote that would start at about $x then I wouldn't be surprised."

The concern is that unless you are regularly working with the integrations your most recent experience might be five years ago. That starts at pricing could be outdated. It would be super helpful to the client to have a more current listing of the enhancement as well as feedback. If they don't get this from us within a year they'll get it from AI and our Sage 100 consulting will start to narrow to only the "fun stuff" like installing Crystal Reports, eFiling, etc to workstations and performing upgrades.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut
------------------------------

It would also be nice if we had a heads up on what the consultant's share is.  Not that the profit amount would affect the decision, but so we can determine if we should be charging for time spent for meetings, proposals, etc.  Some of this is contingent of if and or what type of service agreement is in place.   I had a recent experience where the only way to get a quote was to have an hour and a half discovery call, reply to several follow up email questions then find out the cost was $20K ballpark.  The $20K, although significantly more than expected, was not the issue with me of my customer.  The ISV breaks it down as $2K for software and $18K for consulting / configuration and customization.  I get 10% or 15% of the $2000 and nothing for the remainder.  So I spent all of this time to get two or three hundred bucks.  This is a product that has been implemented many times in a pretty standard distribution environment.     

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
(312) 315-0960
Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-30-2025 09:30
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

I'll go first - 


The way I'm handling it now is when I have some knowledge of what the enhancement typically costs I give a "Starts at" type price - usually in the form of "This isn't a firm quote which only Sage or the ISV can provide - but based on my experience if you receive a quote that would start at about $x then I wouldn't be surprised."

The concern is that unless you are regularly working with the integrations your most recent experience might be five years ago. That starts at pricing could be outdated. It would be super helpful to the client to have a more current listing of the enhancement as well as feedback. If they don't get this from us within a year they'll get it from AI and our Sage 100 consulting will start to narrow to only the "fun stuff" like installing Crystal Reports, eFiling, etc to workstations and performing upgrades.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut
------------------------------

I've seen the same thing with ISVS who offer solutions on the price list where the portion you are offering are about 10% (if that) of the final project and you're being compensated ( hopefully ) on only that 10% piece despite having to help sell the whole thing. I believe Avalara and Altec follow this strategy. I'm sure there are more.

I've also had ISVS - recently eBizCharge - flat out ghost me on a commission request for one of my long-time customers who never used credit cards previously and who I had been after for ages to integrate their credit cards with Sage.

The only real way I've found to deal with what I will politely call "uneven arrangements" is not to refer these ISVs to clients unless they are the only option for what the client is looking to do. When the client asks for feedback on who to look at ( this happens more than the ISVS think ) the "guilty parties" are unlikely to make the list.

I expect to see a lot more of this and frankly have accepted that there's nothing that I can do about it.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-04-2026 09:54
From: Doug Higgs
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

It would also be nice if we had a heads up on what the consultant's share is.  Not that the profit amount would affect the decision, but so we can determine if we should be charging for time spent for meetings, proposals, etc.  Some of this is contingent of if and or what type of service agreement is in place.   I had a recent experience where the only way to get a quote was to have an hour and a half discovery call, reply to several follow up email questions then find out the cost was $20K ballpark.  The $20K, although significantly more than expected, was not the issue with me of my customer.  The ISV breaks it down as $2K for software and $18K for consulting / configuration and customization.  I get 10% or 15% of the $2000 and nothing for the remainder.  So I spent all of this time to get two or three hundred bucks.  This is a product that has been implemented many times in a pretty standard distribution environment.     

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
(312) 315-0960
Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 12-30-2025 09:30
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

I'll go first - 


The way I'm handling it now is when I have some knowledge of what the enhancement typically costs I give a "Starts at" type price - usually in the form of "This isn't a firm quote which only Sage or the ISV can provide - but based on my experience if you receive a quote that would start at about $x then I wouldn't be surprised."

The concern is that unless you are regularly working with the integrations your most recent experience might be five years ago. That starts at pricing could be outdated. It would be super helpful to the client to have a more current listing of the enhancement as well as feedback. If they don't get this from us within a year they'll get it from AI and our Sage 100 consulting will start to narrow to only the "fun stuff" like installing Crystal Reports, eFiling, etc to workstations and performing upgrades.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut

Perhaps we should all start asking for an up-front "evaluation assistance fee" from the ISV. We ask for project eval/initiate fees from prospects. This would be similar. If they don't want to pony up, let them know that they won't receive our recommendation. 

Some ISVs act like our recommendation carries no weight. In fact, we are usually the gatekeepers. I don't know why they don't understand that it's in their best interest to keep us happy. Who here doesn't see to it that your referral sources are happy?

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Karen O'Lane
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
kolane@asifocus.com
559-448-0900
559-577-4142
http://www.asifocus.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-04-2026 21:19
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

I've seen the same thing with ISVS who offer solutions on the price list where the portion you are offering are about 10% (if that) of the final project and you're being compensated ( hopefully ) on only that 10% piece despite having to help sell the whole thing. I believe Avalara and Altec follow this strategy. I'm sure there are more.

I've also had ISVS - recently eBizCharge - flat out ghost me on a commission request for one of my long-time customers who never used credit cards previously and who I had been after for ages to integrate their credit cards with Sage.

The only real way I've found to deal with what I will politely call "uneven arrangements" is not to refer these ISVs to clients unless they are the only option for what the client is looking to do. When the client asks for feedback on who to look at ( this happens more than the ISVS think ) the "guilty parties" are unlikely to make the list.

I expect to see a lot more of this and frankly have accepted that there's nothing that I can do about it.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 01-04-2026 09:54
From: Doug Higgs
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

It would also be nice if we had a heads up on what the consultant's share is.  Not that the profit amount would affect the decision, but so we can determine if we should be charging for time spent for meetings, proposals, etc.  Some of this is contingent of if and or what type of service agreement is in place.   I had a recent experience where the only way to get a quote was to have an hour and a half discovery call, reply to several follow up email questions then find out the cost was $20K ballpark.  The $20K, although significantly more than expected, was not the issue with me of my customer.  The ISV breaks it down as $2K for software and $18K for consulting / configuration and customization.  I get 10% or 15% of the $2000 and nothing for the remainder.  So I spent all of this time to get two or three hundred bucks.  This is a product that has been implemented many times in a pretty standard distribution environment.     

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
(312) 315-0960
Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles


Original Message:
Sent: 12-30-2025 09:30
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

I'll go first - 


The way I'm handling it now is when I have some knowledge of what the enhancement typically costs I give a "Starts at" type price - usually in the form of "This isn't a firm quote which only Sage or the ISV can provide - but based on my experience if you receive a quote that would start at about $x then I wouldn't be surprised."

The concern is that unless you are regularly working with the integrations your most recent experience might be five years ago. That starts at pricing could be outdated. It would be super helpful to the client to have a more current listing of the enhancement as well as feedback. If they don't get this from us within a year they'll get it from AI and our Sage 100 consulting will start to narrow to only the "fun stuff" like installing Crystal Reports, eFiling, etc to workstations and performing upgrades.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Connecticut

@Wayne Schulz I completely agree with you, and I always try to give a "starts at" price before I or the customer wastes too much time looking at something that they won't pay for.  I lead with the value conversation, but that doesn't always work.  Most of the time, it is me having the value conversation with myself in front of the customer to define the value for the customer.  You know, something like, well if this problem is costing you $1,500 per month and we can find a solution that will pay for itself over time, blah, blah, blah.  I cannot tell you how many times someone will complain about an issue, and it really is worth spending $15k or more to solve the problem, and they won't spend $5k.  Too your point, the whole process is stupid.  Perhaps we can use 90Minds for getting price estimates from others when we cannot get it from the vendor?

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Brian Kelly
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
------------------------------

Love this answer Brian. If there is no value to the Customer, any price is irrelevant. I like the idea of you having the value conversation in some cases FOR the Customer. You can at least say you have tried to take their input into the possible solution. 

One other question that I have used and seen work on value shy Customers is "What is my budget for fixing this problem for you?" While this is not a analysis of the actual problem, it does assist in sometimes giving you what they think it is worth to them. Perhaps you could combine your self value conversation with this question appended. "Given that it is costing you $15K a year, what is my budget?" 

One last way of posing it is, "What is the business reason for fixing this problem?" 

FWIW - I agree ISV's should be more price transparent with Partner... And Customers for that matter.

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Ed Kless
Co-Founder
THRESHOLD
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-31-2025 12:21
From: Brian Kelly
Subject: Stop the "Treadmill of Bad Zoom Calls": The case for transparent pricing.

@Wayne Schulz I completely agree with you, and I always try to give a "starts at" price before I or the customer wastes too much time looking at something that they won't pay for.  I lead with the value conversation, but that doesn't always work.  Most of the time, it is me having the value conversation with myself in front of the customer to define the value for the customer.  You know, something like, well if this problem is costing you $1,500 per month and we can find a solution that will pay for itself over time, blah, blah, blah.  I cannot tell you how many times someone will complain about an issue, and it really is worth spending $15k or more to solve the problem, and they won't spend $5k.  Too your point, the whole process is stupid.  Perhaps we can use 90Minds for getting price estimates from others when we cannot get it from the vendor?

------------------------------
Brian Kelly
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
------------------------------

I am also a big fan of "Starting At"!   

We created a "Start and Grow" program with a starting at point with a ton of assumptions for our base implementation service.  For example, the client had to use our chart of accounts and standard "default" configuration with limited options for variation.  It included a training program and was limited to the core distribution modules.   If they needed kits or BOMs, that was a plus package increasing the price.   With this approach the customer "qualifies" themselves into a higher package and price.  Over time we created three versions which varied in the amount of services like data conversion and post go live support.

Similar services were developed for standard integration (from Shopify to Sage 100 for example) for B2C with assumptions on how to handle freight and taxes.  The key to "starting at" is very tight scope control and definition of what "comes with."

I find it very disingenuous for a publisher to say how their partner prices services when from time to time they make statements about how quick implementation can be.  At one point in time SAP said Business One could be "implemented" in 3 days.   The partners revolted because their installation process was so bad at the time that could take 3 days!!!  

For third party products you MUST do the same.  I think it was ACOM document management that was tightly integrated into Sage (Patrick Nguyen had just gone there) and they had a really simple process and configuration within Sage 100.   We could fix fee that because it was simple and we could scope the service and define the flow in a very standard way.   Anything outside of that would be out of scope or consultative billing.  Back then it would have been impossible with DocLink (not sure today).  Some 3rd party products will be much easier than others.

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Gary Feldman
Principal
I-Business Network
Marietta GA
16786270646
http://www-i-bn.net
------------------------------

I'm a fan of transparency, but... some partners wish we were less transparent. I do like the idea of 90Minds members commenting on their experiences with ISVs, like yelp or expedia. Following the format Wayne has asked for, below is our submission. 

ISV NAME: My CRM Manager
Solution: CRM integrations to Sage ERP (or Accumatica)
Description of the pain it resolves: bidirectional integration between CRM and accounting that accommodates Order Processing from the CRM.

Feedback from consultants: // be honest

Starts at pricing ( subject to verification by ISV ): see the pricing calculators on the www.mycrmmanager.com website

• For Sage CRM, most all accounts start with the fixed fee 'Quick Start' which is about 2-months of setup and direction. On top of that there is software licensing. Beyond the 2-month Quick Start, ½ the accounts end up doing something funky with CRM. IE – use it to manage the flow of information between Department A and Department B. Sage CRM Pricing – My CRM Manager
• For Salesforce, most accounts just get us to configure the integration (3k fixed) but with bells and whistles it averages at approximately $9,000 plus the subscription. Salesforce Integration Pricing – My CRM Manager

For referral commissions, our normal MO is 10% on services invoiced in the first 12-months. We always invoice clients directly. I appreciate this isn't a ton, and doesn't work for all partners (some require invoicing to flow through them, some require a 30% margin for the referral), but for the vast majority of partners that support us, we are just getting introduced. And there might be some Sage ERP consulting involved on their part. If they choose to get involved with the client in the evaluation, I hope they invoice for their efforts, but... I have no idea.

I'm very open to hearing how we (MCM) can be a more attractive option for the 90Minds community.

Also.. as most of you are aware, CRM initiatives are super dangerous (like ice climbing) and, while a good portion of our systems are fantastic, a fraction of these projects will fail (no matter what), and I appreciate that many ERP partners do not want to be associated with failures (don't blame you). The other point that I should share is that, statistically only 20% of the companies we are introduced to ever go ahead with the project.

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Dan Cousins (416) 233-9049
My CRM Manager
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