General Consultant Discussion

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  • 1.  Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 12:38
    I have a meeting in two hours regarding a subscription agreement I am asking my customers to change to.  Included in the agreement is an upgrade to the most recent version of Sage 100.  I anticipate being asked if they can get a lower price if they don't want to upgrade.  If they don't upgrade then I have to potentially support Sage unsupported versions.

    Do I say I support Sage unsupported versions?  If I do decide to support Sage unsupported versions, how much extra should I charge, and what are a few justifications for charging more?


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    Doug Higgs
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    (312) 315-0960
    Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
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  • 2.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 12:48
    Be sure to mention that any support for older versions is done as a "best effort, with no guarantees".
    Justifications for higher prices:
    • No access to Sage product updates / hotfixes / support & assistance for any issues. 
    • Older versions were not designed to run on current versions of Windows.
    • Very limited skill base for supporting older versions.


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    Kevin Moyes
    Technical Systems Analyst
    Munjal White Consulting Co.
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  • 3.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 13:30
    Excellent.  Thanks @Kevin Moyes


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    Doug Higgs
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    (312) 315-0960
    Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
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  • 4.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 13:51
    Subscription agreement?  To turn them into Sub maintenance from Perpetual keys or subscription statement of work plan from Doug Higgs for monthly "retainer"?

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    Jeff Schwenk
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
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  • 5.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 13:49
    Edited by Wayne Schulz 07-15-2022 13:54

    My .02

    Supporting customers on older unsupported versions falls into two camps:

    ONE - Existing customer who you've been supported for a few years - I do it and charge more for it. For the sake of argument make it a 50% surcharge.

    TWO - New customer ( orphan )  already on Sage - I have found with near 100% that these are mostly "come find out my secret" ( ie they have a lot of custom stuff they play dumb about)  or "we don't pay consultants and are proud of it" or "we don't pay maintenance and are proud of it".

    Frequently today's orphan has all three characteristics.

    These used to be the type of company who might upgrade and stay with you on your support plan. Now I increasingly find they're looking for the free initial consultation and see if you'll agree to bill them only for questions that take over 3 hours ( everything else is a quick question in their mind ). I provide them an invoice and a link to pay then I'll never call them back unless I see a payment come in from them. PS - EXPIRE ANY PROPOSAL YOU GIVE  -  I recommend 15 days. In 80% of cases it will be a waste of time to propose unless your proposal is that you'll pay them for the privilege of working with them.... If they want to know what your hourly rate is if they don't go on a support plan - have a web link that leads to a credit card payment form and make it a per case ( here's an example of mine ).

    These companies who don't want to be on a plan and don't want to upgrade ( ever ) are not worth the time.

    Just my .02 from dealing with recent orphans. 



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    Wayne Schulz
    wayne@s-consult.com
    Schulz Consulting
    (860) 516-8990
    Moodus, CT
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  • 6.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 14:02
    It looks like you are asking about EXISTING customers - which I've found is slightly easier to deal with.

    What are you hourly rates?
    A: I don't have an hourly rate any longer - all my work is under a support plan. 
    ( If you are serious about getting customers onto subscription/support agreement then never talk hourly rates. After you tell them you no longer have hourly rates SHUT UP. )
    - If you have a history with the customer you might offer them a monthly amount prepaid with a 1 year term - just be sure you know what type of volume they might use

    Do you have a cheaper alternative? 
    A: Yes, for $x per case prepaid by CC - response is no sooner than a 24 business hour turnaround from the time of payment ..... 

    I have also begun to bundle in an annual upgrade but only when I've done at least one paid upgrade for the company and the upgrade is fairly straightforward.


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    Wayne Schulz
    wayne@s-consult.com
    Schulz Consulting
    (860) 516-8990
    Moodus, CT
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  • 7.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-15-2022 14:13
    This is great info @Wayne Schulz  Yes, I have been working with them for about 10 years.  I have already had one meeting and presented my subscription agreement.  I have done three upgrades so I know the effort required and have included the upgrade in  each of my alternatives.  She already asked if I can bill by the hour if they go with a plan and a situation arises that isn't covered in the plan.  I said no I no longer bill by the hours and any additional services will be billed fixed price.  She also has my "starting at" list of ala carte menu items.

    @Jeff Schwenk  it is "subscription statement of work plan from Doug Higgs for monthly "retainer""
    ​​​

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    Doug Higgs
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    (312) 315-0960
    Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
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  • 8.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-16-2022 21:19
    You have some very good suggestions here. I have a couple of general ones

    1. ALWAYS make sure the customer has 3 clear-cut choices in front of them, ALL fixed-fee, defined results. I have a scenario where there are 4: the 4th one is "if you choose none of these 3, then you can expect 24+ hr response time, a fixed-fee paid-in-advance to DIAGNOSE your problem, followed by 3 options to fix it, with all of them paying full, rack-rate fixed-fee which are at least 50% more expensive than those we offer customers in the 1st 3 choices. 

    In other words, you don't say "no" but very clearly say "working with you in this state is difficult and costly (opportunity cost) so you will pay more if you really want to work this way." 

    2. Try very, very hard to avoid having just ONE feature be the difference between one level and another. With just one, they clearly know the price of that one option. So with upgrades, you can have the top option be annual, the 2nd and 3rd be every two years. But then you also must change other options such as response time, how many reconciliations they get annually, number of contacts, or other differentiators.

    3. I am NOT a fan of including payment terms as any of the options: you are subtly showing you're open to negotiation over that, which ALWAYS then leads to arguments about "when the job is complete." Prepaid only. 

    4. I'm not always so good at this, but especially in selling the value of frequent upgrades you must make an effort to educate them on what they will get out of it. What they will save from it. At its core, customers who upgrade regularly save the consultant a lot of time and money fixing problems. That's invisible to customers. We need to bring it to them.

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    Jerry Norman
    At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
    Smartbridge Partners
    (512) 653-7498
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  • 9.  RE: Sage Unsupported Versions

    Posted 07-18-2022 08:57
    Thanks for the suggestions @Jerry Norman


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    Doug Higgs
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    (312) 315-0960
    Chauffeur, Chef, and Personal Assistant to Sprinkles
    ------------------------------