General Consultant Discussion

Sage reinstatements: What has been your experience recently (last 6 mo) with Sage regarding reinstating customers who are off plans. Are they granting discounts? If so how much? I have a customer who is about $40k off plan and I'm trying to judge what a fair renewal would be and if Sage is offering discounts in any situations that I may not be aware of.

Are they eligible for the Win Back program? If so they just have extend it till end of Sept.

I don't think so - do you know what the eligibility rules are?

No trying to find that out.... If I find it I will get back to you. You might also price out a new sales - by user.... could be less

Getting told that we are getting an announcement\update tomorrow on what the eligibility rules are .

Thanks Diane -Sage today swore there would be no new promos for reinstatement .

Technically, it's not a new promo but an extension of the last one.....

I plan to ask Sage for a guarantee that there will not be a lower priced promo through 9/30 or they provide the price difference as a credit to future maintenance. I doubt they'll agree

I think we can almost assume that any off plan customer can get back at 1/2 price of buying a new system, until they decide to really push the subscription option and risk alienating those older clients.

Was in a meeting with a GP VAR and he said that off plan accounts have to pay TWO years of support to get back on plan PLUS pay the penalty. But then again, maybe he was saying that to the GP user so that he wouldn't go off plan.......

Yes in most cases that is true but not always @MarkChinsky. I had a client that when we did the calculation they would save $$ by buying new and also get the RMA and VI module. They were not eligible as a renewal for ""new License credit"" so with a new sale we got that also. Win Win for both - Us and the Client.

Yea but that's still less than 50% of list price

I spoke with Sage yesterday on a reinstatement and this customer has a bill of $45k for 30 users. Sage was willing to come down perhaps 10%. I do NOT believe that it's true that Sage will drop their pricing by a steep 50% UNLESS the customer meets a promotional criteria. Note: I would love to be proven wrong here with RECENT examples. It's been a while since I've negotiated any customers back onto Sage's plan - and that's part of why I'm asking to see if anyone else has had better experiences. My feedback to Sage was that I am in a ""fiduciary duty"" as a consultant to the customer. I am NOT Sage's salesperson (or realistically their partner based on their recent attitude changes over the past year). I feel duty bound to act in a consulting - not sales - capacity. That means I will: a. :Present the Sage proposal b. Provide guidance based on feedback of what the customer might reasonably expect for discounts c. Provide options (re-licenses) d. To some extent negotiate with Sage - request a price protection through their fiscal year so if they pop a ""one month back on plan 9/1/12 "" that the customer can have some assurance they didn't just over-pay a material amount... Granted I think my concern is a LOT less for a customer paying $5k to come back vs $45k... The days when most of the channel buddies up with Sage on these are probably over. .02

I just got a quote for a customer who is more than 3 years out and according to my CAM (whatever version he is now), that qualifies for 50% off new user-based pricing - but only for modules they currently own. If they want additional modules, that does not qualify for 50% off.

I agree with you @WayneSchulz

We did the reinstate vs list and I think it was more like $44 vs $60. The tricky part is if you look at many of the Sage price lists they've conveniently left the maintenance off the pricing so you have to be sure to remember to add that back which can be material to the new license price.

@ThereseLogeais I think it depends on the last version shipped. This customer is on 4.20 but was last shipped 4.3 and the reason they never installed it is because they were using Extended Solutions which Sage got rid of in 4.3 and also was in the midst of refusing / allowing (depending on who you asked) sales of the 4.3 versions. Otherwise we'd probably be able to save some $ but Sage is strictly looking at the shipped version in our case. I've always tried negotiating these at a quarter/year end and find that Sage usually does not care to discount much during the interim periods.

@ThereseLogeais user based is price per user with all the modules included - module based is what I think your CAM was talking about .

Mine ended up being $16k vs. $29k and that included maintenance.

You're right @WayneSchulz - it is based on the last shipped version. Mine is on 3.71 and they may have been shipped something more recent but they are still 3 yrs. out.

For customers using a large # of Extended Solutions and high user count - the cutoff for last version shipped might punish them for not renewing for an upgrade that they could not have used for another year.

So why shouldn't the customer just wait another year before reinstating

Because you never know what the promo will be in another year?

@MarkChinsky That's exactly what I recommend - if you can afford to wait and continue to use what you have - then time is on your side. In some cases the customer wants to integrate CRM. In others the customer may be back several versions and wants to use Paperless (which only became usable on 4.3.17 I think --- though the work around seems to be to install MAS 4.5 WKSETUP, make sure that the paperless is working and then uninstall)....

@DianeRuth Do you know what the present formula is for computing re-instatement? Sage sent me one quote that seems to be : One year future maintenance Two years back maintenance plus 25 % Then on a previous quote they seem to have quoted: One year future maintenance One year back maintenance plus 70%

@WayneSchulz sorry to say can't find the document that actually states the Win Back promotional criteria.. I think I remember it being like what @ThereseLogeais is saying using module base pricing .( 50% off ) I also think it is the luck of the draw between your CAM and what day it is on what the actual promotion is going to be for your client. You would think they would have this document somewhere so that we can find it, since they want us to get these clients to renew. I was told we were going to get a document today and usually the emails from Tom are around 5-6pm our time. We will see.

Thanks - I have a January 2012 quote for a customer on 4.3 where there was no promotion that I could see - they quoted: 1 year future maintenance 1 year maintenance plus 70% Either the quote was under some type of promo or the one that I was just sent is using some other mathematical formula. It's no big deal when the renewal is under $10 -- but at $45k I feel as if I should make sure that Sage is charging appropriately.

i agree - I hate having a client give Sage one penny more than they have too. I would wait to see if something comes out today. Did you ask for a new quote ?

I found this from 6/1/2012: http://cdn.na.sage.com/sagemail/SageMail/Off_Plan_Promotion_FY12.html

Thanks. I've still got no idea how Sage computed this (and I bet they won't either)

@ThereseLogeais you are good where did you find it?

I can come close to what Sage is charging if I take: All back maintenance One future year maintenance Which appears to be the formula under Therese's linked Sage memo ...until they change it again - probably during September year end.

I searched my inbox for ""reinstatement"" and found the link in an email from Joe Langner on 6/1.

Just spoke to Sage - they are telling me: Sage is collecting the LESSER of: 2 years back maintenance plus 25% 1 year forward maintenance or Actual years back maintenance (ie - out of plan less than 2 years use actual months/12 ) plus 25% 1 year forward maintenance It seems as if the 25% penalty is open to negotiation (probably varies by rep) I'm unsure to what extent they will negotiate past that (haven't tried yet). Just an FYI -- and I have no idea why this does not appear to match up with the email notice.

Your numbers are approximately the same as 50 percent off list. If you think about it 2 years of maintenance is roughly 40 percent plus another 25 percent probably end up to 50 to 60 percent

I didn't mean to imply it wasn't 50% off list - rather 50% of what the reinstatement would be. If possible I would have this customer just wait out the reinstatement for a better offer however as we know customers will always downplay their need to reinstate until the very last minute which negates a lot of negotiating power.