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Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

  • 1.  Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-04-2019 19:34
    Now that I made it through the January crazies, I'm taking the time to share my experiences.  I've been watching for similar posts where others ran into W2 nightmares and am amazed I haven't seen any.  I only have 2 clients using the new payroll and it still bit me.    

    I ran into the issue where supplemental bonus wages didn't hit the Fed and State taxable wages box.  Sage has it written up as "Supplemental Bonus Withholding Wages do not display on Quarterly Tax Report" - Defect #109245.  They released a fix for it, but it didn't go back to fix amounts that had already been run through so we ended up ​having to manually override Fed and State wages for over 80 employees.  At least I can consider this issue resolved at this point. 

    I've been fighting with Sage for a month on the supplemental wage rate for WI being wrong.  It was written up as an issue back on 5/9/18  - Defect ID #109300.  The workaround is to manually calculate taxes.  They have 4% taxes being withheld instead of 6.27% which is the rate for the salary range where most employees fall.  The concerns I reported to them are 1) it can't take 9+ months to fix payroll issues; 2) why under-withhold the taxes instead of plugging in the 6.27% rate if you're going to plug a rate; they say I can't expect a quick fix for something like that.  I say changing 4 to 6.27 seems pretty easy to me; 3) you can't expect users to manually calculate taxes when they're dealing with many employees.  Technically I think that's true even when they have just a few employees, but that's because I know the skill set of most of my users doing payroll.  Jeri argues they shouldn't be processing payroll if they can't do it manually.  That may be true but that's not the world I deal with.  

    It eventually got escalated to Linda Cade and she seemed to care about my concerns.  She told me a fix was going to be released last week.  I installed the latest payroll update and the latest tax table update.  I ran tests and confirmed it's still calculating the wrong state taxes.  Linda did a new write-up for the KB and the way it's written, it confirms they're not annualizing wages like they're supposed to for the calculation.  They're just taking YTD wages plus current wages and then applying the table.  I called back to report my findings and was told by Jeri that users have to do manual taxes any time they want to process a payroll run with supplemental wages.  Since that's her answer to the other defect I've been dealing with as well, I asked what's the point of having a payroll system then.  If we have to do manual taxes for everything, we might as well hand write the paychecks.  She cut me off at that point and said she'll have Linda call me.

    I also ran into the issue where GT Life > 50,000 wasn't handled correctly by the system when it was processed as a fringe.  The wages showed up as taxable for Federal, but not for FICA and Medicare.  That meant we had to manually override FICA and Medicare wages as well as tax amounts, and the client will get hit with penalties and interest for paying the taxes late.   There are 2 tax rules with GT Life in the description - 800019 Group Term Life Wages Not Subject to WH and 8000113 Group Term Life Wages Subject to Withholding.  Neither one includes the wages as being taxable for FICA and Medicare.  They're telling me the workaround is to find a tax rule that behaves the way I need it to - no matter what it's called.  I went through all the tax rules and couldn't find one so I threw it back at them to tell me which one I'm supposed to pick.  I'm still waiting for an answer on that.  The concerns I reported to them are 1)  why have tax rules called GT life that are wrong; 2) users don't call me every time they have to set up an earnings code or a deduction code, so how are they supposed to know that they're supposed to pick XXX tax rule and that neither of the existing GT life rules are right; 3) say I pick XXX tax rule for the GT life earnings code; what's to stop someone from looking at it down the road and wonder why would someone have picked that rule that doesn't look like it has anything to do with GT life and change it.  The response I got was users are supposed to manually calculate taxes and make sure the rule selected works correctly.  I argued that even if they do that, what do they do when they don't find a tax rule that works like they need it to, like we have in this instance.  Their response - you guessed it - do manual taxes when processing GT life.  

    My client that ran into both the supplemental bug and this GT life mess spent 2 full days overriding wage amounts and taxes for all of his employees.  

    I thought that the two clients I installed Sage 2018 for had pretty simple payrolls compared to many of the other clients I work with.  Knowing the W2 mess these two had to deal with, I'm wondering how I can possibly justify upgrading anyone else.  So my questions to all of you:

    Have you been doing the new payroll installations?
    Are there outstanding issues you've uncovered that haven't been addressed yet?  
    How can I be the only one who ran into GT Life issues?  Sage insists I'm the only one who reported it.  
    Are you comfortable recommending manual tax calculation to your users?


    ------------------------------
    Mary Jo Krueger
    Senior Software Consultant
    Schenck SC
    Appleton WI
    920-996-1176
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-04-2019 20:14
    Thank you for taking the time to detail your experiences.  Valuable information.  I'm sorry it's been a frustrating experience, especially the rather lame Sage response of use manual taxes. 

    Addressing your last questions I've moved all but one customer to payroll processing firms.  The customers are all much happier. 

    In the Los Angeles Market payroll processing firms charge $1.50 to $3.00 per paycheck and usually include a ton of services, including tax deposits and payroll via direct deposit.  Employee dashboards, easy onboarding, add/drop employees with ease, unlimited earnings/deductions, and they figure out all the taxes<g class="gr_ gr_4522 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation multiReplace" id="4522" data-gr-id="4522">....</g>

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    Moira Goggin
    Executive Director
    90 Minds, Inc.
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  • 3.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-04-2019 20:18
    Thanks, Moira.  No need for you to apologize but I appreciate the commiseration.  I'm appalled that Sage representatives think it's OK to handle payroll processing the way they are.  I knew I was going to live to regret wanting payroll written in the business framework.  Here it is.

    ------------------------------
    Mary Jo Krueger
    Senior Software Consultant
    Schenck SC
    Appleton WI
    920-996-1176
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-05-2019 09:32
    Have you been doing the new payroll installations? - Only done three - all less than 10 employees.  Waiting for the first YE to see what issues pop up annually.  I have several itching to convert.  Now I am not sure if Sage is ready for them to take the plunge.

    Are there outstanding issues you've uncovered that haven't been addressed yet?  Are the tax rule definitions ANY better?  I know they released something but haven't taken the time to review.  I would love them to fix the departmental posting for employer matching of deductions (debits and credits are reversed).  They looked into it and decided it was a WAD.  Problem has existed since day one of the enhancement release (five plus years ago).  I noticed it when the enhancement was released and that killed my excitement as I had numerous clients ready to use it.  I did not report it.  Fast forward to 2018.  A client wants to use it.  They have an elaborate work around at ME to properly post the entries so I sent my documentation to Diane Coffman who championed the defect for me.  They claimed I was the only one reporting it.  I managed to get 30 + votes on the idea website   And in the end, it was decided that it was a WAD, no one else has the issue (I countered that no one else was using it) and that if I really wanted it to work the way I envisioned, I should contact DSD to purchase their enhancement!!!!!!!

    How can I be the only one who ran into GT Life issues? Sage insists I'm the only one who reported it.- See above.  You very well could be the only one reporting the issue.  It is somewhat obscure and catching it requires someone who is aware of the tax rules and guidelines and detail oriented.  The issue is to what level do people reconcile their data to other reports?  IMHO, not a great number.

    Are you comfortable recommending manual tax calculation to your users?  For YEARS, I have cringed when someone calls about accounting for 3rd party sick pay.  The manual process is a PITA!  For many years (still?) if someone had dependent care deductions, you had to manually add that number to the FED tax table (via the FIX button) prior to generating w-2's.  The little corrections make companies evaluate whether PR is worth the hassle to do in house.  It becomes a vicious circle.  Sage doesn't fix, people leave, Less money for on going fixes, Sage doesn't fix, more people leave.


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    Jeff Schwenk
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
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  • 5.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-05-2019 09:47
    Thanks for taking the time to respond, Jeff.  I have many that want to take the plunge as well but I'm heading them off at the pass.  The only change I'm aware of to the tax rules is the drill-down capabilities that they added back in 2019.0 so you can actually see what's being taxed in each rule.  Jeri with Sage has thrown that back at me several times.  That's helpful but not really because we can't change anything when we find a problem.  Linda told me they don't want to be in the business of advising on taxes.  I told her they have to be now that they took away any ability we had to make changes. 

    Regarding the departmental posting of employer deductions - the way they have it working is a joke.  I can't imagine anyone has a need for it working the way it does now.  I've never used it and I'm sure you're right - no one else is either. 

    I know you're right when you say not a great number of people reconcile their year-end data to reports, unfortunately.  Actually that's how I spend almost all of my January each year and I'm amazed at how many issues I uncover.  Everyone thinks the system should work and they shouldn't have to double check anything.  If only that were true.

    ------------------------------
    Mary Jo Krueger
    Senior Software Consultant
    Schenck SC
    Appleton WI
    920-996-1176
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-05-2019 10:37
    I have one payroll only customer currently on 2017.  First test was useless because they hadn't turned on perpetual history (which they don't need because they actually take the data from Sage 100 payroll for the peons and merge it with the bosses payroll n another system).  Tried again Jan 1.  Precheck register refused to run, and Sage support only answer was "wipe it and reinstall again".  Checks had to go out that day so they went back to 2017 to do it.  I advised them that support for 2017  would run out at the end of 2019 and they should have another provider in place by then.

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    Phil McIntosh
    President
    Friendly Systems, Inc.
    Asheville NC
    678.273.4010 ext 5
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  • 7.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-05-2019 10:41
    As an option, I switched Friendly Systems to xTuple as of Jan 1, and it does not have payroll module of it's own.  They have done some work with Timetrex, which is another opensource/commercial hybrid.  It can be on premise or hosted, and the base hosted version is even free.  I believe when Sage first came out with payroll tiers the commercial pricing was pretty close.  It also has time clocks, HR, and a bunch more stuff.

    It is a little clunky for  a two salary payroll, but it works, and if you run it on premise you can customize it.

    ------------------------------
    Phil McIntosh
    President
    Friendly Systems, Inc.
    Asheville NC
    678.273.4010 ext 5
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-05-2019 23:29
    Edited by Michelle Taylor 02-05-2019 23:34
    HI Mary Jo,  I, too, am sorry that anyone has had to have your experiences - I wish Jeri wasn't on the Payroll phone queue!  

    Have you been doing the new payroll installations?  I've only performed a couple of upgrades to 2018.  Both have stumbled, and are okay now.  We'll  have several this year.

    Are there outstanding issues you've uncovered that haven't been addressed yet?  No, those we've identified have been corrected.  


    How can I be the only one who ran into GT Life issues?  Sage insists I'm the only one who reported it.  I expect that you truly are not the only one to report the issue, yet they have no way of resolving the problem, as they are relying on a third-party for the tax rules and have no control of the rules.


    Are you comfortable recommending manual tax calculation to your users?  NO; I totally agree - what's the point of a payroll system if you're doing all of the work?!?  I have a work-around for your GTL issue!  There are three setup steps and a manual change in the Payroll processing, but it HAS to be better than manually calculating taxes.  First, in Tax Profile Maintenance create a new Profile - in my example I used "GTL" as the code.  You may need more than one code based on the State of the employee pool.  Select the appropriate State and Location Type, then on the right side clear all of the State tax options, and clear all of the Federal tax options except SS and Medicare (there should only be 4 selected).  Second, select Regular Wages for the Tax Rule for the GTL Earnings Code.  Next step is optional; I found it easier to have the GTL Earnings Code automated. So, on the Employee Maintenance > Pay Defaults tab, check the box for Multiple Automatic Earnings Codes, then click the Auto Earnings button.  Simply add the Earnings Code here.  Here is the really important part - during Payroll Entry, the GTL Earnings Code line must have the Tax Profile Code changed to the newly created in the First step. Please reach out if I can help!  Will be happy to!!



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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    9183889772
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  • 9.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-06-2019 09:46
    Thanks for this, Michelle!  I'll give it a whirl and do up documentation.  You're right - it's definitely better than doing manual taxes and I see it as a viable option for my users who only run through GT Life at the end of the year.  For those that process it with every payroll, they're not going to be happy.

    ------------------------------
    Mary Jo Krueger
    Senior Software Consultant
    Schenck SC
    Appleton WI
    920-996-1176
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-06-2019 12:05
    I did some testing on your GT Life workaround, @Michelle Taylor, and I have some additional notes to add for anyone else who might be using this.  First, when setting up the tax profile, it has to be taxable for Fed and State withholding too, not just FICA and Medicare.  I haven't been grumbling about the withholding  because one of Sage's existing GT Life tax rules already had it set as being subject to Fed and State.  Second, I had to go into the ​Taxes tab for each employee and add the GTL tax profile before I could select it during data entry.  Obviously it shouldn't get flagged as the Default. 

    Thanks again for your help.  You should apply to Sage - they can use some good help!

    ------------------------------
    Mary Jo Krueger
    Senior Software Consultant
    Schenck SC
    Appleton WI
    920-996-1176
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Sage 2018 Payroll Issues

    Posted 02-06-2019 12:17
    Very glad those steps were helpful!  I see that I did skip that step in my post, to add to the Tax profile to the employee record.

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
    ------------------------------