Sage 100

When are people going to start upgrading to 2019 with work Order and MRP to the new ScanCo Production Management Module? There was the training course at Summit in ATL and now an online training, how long are people waiting to start implementing the new module? IS this going to be like a new Payroll 2.0 fiasco?

Or has anyone upgraded a client to this yet and is there any feedback, bugs, issues, advice, conversion issues?

------------------------------
Erin Oldaker
Senior Consultant
SWK Technologies Inc.
Huntington Beach CA
858-244-5040
------------------------------

Inaugural certification class was last week.  Scanco has done a good job getting it this far but they still have a ways to go.  A reseller cannot get get PM keys until they have take the class.  The code is not complete IMHO.  There is no history migration as yet, not sure when (if) it will be available.  I don't envision a lot of early adopters on this one yet.

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

I do know we need the keys to get the PM keys and Darin from ScanCo said:

"Sage has asked us to not send out keys until the resellers have been through training.  I know you had a consultant at training last week.  So, you're good there.
We are currently overloaded with key requests and are working through them as quickly as we can.  I hope to have them all processed no later than the end of this week.
Thanks for your patience.  We have been surprised at the large request "

So there is a back log on resellers having gone through training even getting the keys, much less us being able to play with it and test on our own. There was the group of people that used and tested the product prior, I know it is just JobOps Lite, and not a Sage created Module like PR2.0 was, but is it going to be a nightmare conversion like PR2.0?    (for the open WO)

I have warned customers about not being able to convert history, but clients see Sage advertising it and want it now, and we have to be the one to say it isn't ready. But just curious for the people that have used it or upgraded and./or beta tested it, what their thoughts were, or if everyone is waiting again like we did with PR2.0?



------------------------------
Erin Oldaker
Senior Consultant
SWK Technologies Inc.
Huntington Beach CA
858-244-5040
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 09:51
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Production Management Conversions

Inaugural certification class was last week.  Scanco has done a good job getting it this far but they still have a ways to go.  A reseller cannot get get PM keys until they have take the class.  The code is not complete IMHO.  There is no history migration as yet, not sure when (if) it will be available.  I don't envision a lot of early adopters on this one yet.

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

I see it playing out similarly to payroll, i.e. new customers on it first.  A lot of current WO customers have some mods (WOEP or otherwise) that will have to be dealt with first.

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625
------------------------------

I am taking the online training this week. First impression is that it is a major step forward in functionality, Beth is on the mark with her assessment. New users on first. For current users of Work Order, the learning curve will be steep for many. Some have a have time understanding the current features. 

Will the scope of changes, there has to been issues lurking. I planning on November time frame before migrating and current users.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 09:57
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I see it playing out similarly to payroll, i.e. new customers on it first.  A lot of current WO customers have some mods (WOEP or otherwise) that will have to be dealt with first.

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625
------------------------------

​I see this initially being installed for new customers, since we do no need to deal with data migration, specifically history. A new customer also has no experience with WO that they may bring up as always happens. The new customers, if done immediately, would not be needing MRP right away (although, if not, why not?) but by the time they are ready for that (implementation complete for live operations), MRP should have been released. We do have to consider 2 key factors for existing users: 1) There will be some program issues that need to be worked out as is inevitable with new software, and 2) Scanco is going to be overwhelmed with support calls - don't count on any Sage support - it will almost always need to go back to Scanco. All of this tells me that existing users should wait until at least the June release is out and tested in the field by consultants.

The final consideration is that many existing WO customers may actually be Make To Order operations, so they should either be looking at Sage Manufacturing for v2018 or wait for PM MTO, which is late this year for all optional modules or perhaps 2020. The estimates that both Joe Bisaha and I came up with independently are 75% of WO customers will need the full PM MTO. This potential can only be determined with a process review to determine what they are really doing and needing. Remember that the nature of WO was such that ACSG enhancements were required to approximate what they needed and other workarounds were in place.

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:08
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I am taking the online training this week. First impression is that it is a major step forward in functionality, Beth is on the mark with her assessment. New users on first. For current users of Work Order, the learning curve will be steep for many. Some have a have time understanding the current features.

Will the scope of changes, there has to been issues lurking. I planning on November time frame before migrating and current users.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 09:57
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I see it playing out similarly to payroll, i.e. new customers on it first.  A lot of current WO customers have some mods (WOEP or otherwise) that will have to be dealt with first.

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625

I'd think Sage / ScanCo would want to get as many victims to beta test the software as are willing to volunteer. Make the keys time limited, and clarify it is for test servers only, but controlling who can even look at the new PM is... unwise.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:31
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

​I see this initially being installed for new customers, since we do no need to deal with data migration, specifically history. A new customer also has no experience with WO that they may bring up as always happens. The new customers, if done immediately, would not be needing MRP right away (although, if not, why not?) but by the time they are ready for that (implementation complete for live operations), MRP should have been released. We do have to consider 2 key factors for existing users: 1) There will be some program issues that need to be worked out as is inevitable with new software, and 2) Scanco is going to be overwhelmed with support calls - don't count on any Sage support - it will almost always need to go back to Scanco. All of this tells me that existing users should wait until at least the June release is out and tested in the field by consultants.

The final consideration is that many existing WO customers may actually be Make To Order operations, so they should either be looking at Sage Manufacturing for v2018 or wait for PM MTO, which is late this year for all optional modules or perhaps 2020. The estimates that both Joe Bisaha and I came up with independently are 75% of WO customers will need the full PM MTO. This potential can only be determined with a process review to determine what they are really doing and needing. Remember that the nature of WO was such that ACSG enhancements were required to approximate what they needed and other workarounds were in place.

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:08
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I am taking the online training this week. First impression is that it is a major step forward in functionality, Beth is on the mark with her assessment. New users on first. For current users of Work Order, the learning curve will be steep for many. Some have a have time understanding the current features.

Will the scope of changes, there has to been issues lurking. I planning on November time frame before migrating and current users.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 09:57
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I see it playing out similarly to payroll, i.e. new customers on it first.  A lot of current WO customers have some mods (WOEP or otherwise) that will have to be dealt with first.

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625

The end users that are still on perpetual have stubbornly resisted subscription because they believe they have already paid for the software once and don't believe it is wise to rent.  If the company has more than three user licenses there is a remote probability that they will ever buy PM.  I believe many will strongly consider looking elsewhere for an ERP solution, as this pricing structure may be the final insult.

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:42
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I'd think Sage / ScanCo would want to get as many victims to beta test the software as are willing to volunteer. Make the keys time limited, and clarify it is for test servers only, but controlling who can even look at the new PM is... unwise.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:31
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

​I see this initially being installed for new customers, since we do no need to deal with data migration, specifically history. A new customer also has no experience with WO that they may bring up as always happens. The new customers, if done immediately, would not be needing MRP right away (although, if not, why not?) but by the time they are ready for that (implementation complete for live operations), MRP should have been released. We do have to consider 2 key factors for existing users: 1) There will be some program issues that need to be worked out as is inevitable with new software, and 2) Scanco is going to be overwhelmed with support calls - don't count on any Sage support - it will almost always need to go back to Scanco. All of this tells me that existing users should wait until at least the June release is out and tested in the field by consultants.

The final consideration is that many existing WO customers may actually be Make To Order operations, so they should either be looking at Sage Manufacturing for v2018 or wait for PM MTO, which is late this year for all optional modules or perhaps 2020. The estimates that both Joe Bisaha and I came up with independently are 75% of WO customers will need the full PM MTO. This potential can only be determined with a process review to determine what they are really doing and needing. Remember that the nature of WO was such that ACSG enhancements were required to approximate what they needed and other workarounds were in place.

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 10:08
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I am taking the online training this week. First impression is that it is a major step forward in functionality, Beth is on the mark with her assessment. New users on first. For current users of Work Order, the learning curve will be steep for many. Some have a have time understanding the current features.

Will the scope of changes, there has to been issues lurking. I planning on November time frame before migrating and current users.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 09:57
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I see it playing out similarly to payroll, i.e. new customers on it first.  A lot of current WO customers have some mods (WOEP or otherwise) that will have to be dealt with first.

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625

I'm hesitant to jump on the training right away. I've had really bad experiences with taking a training class, then a project is deferred for a long period of time and all that training investment is ( for me ) forgotten. I'm also hoping that by waiting a bit the training will pick up additional info from real-world experiences.

 I have had a lot of inquiries on this. I personally believe 75% of those inquiries aren't going to be sophisticated enough to run a full MFG but I'm going to facilitate and bill them for the assistance after providing a candid assessment.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

I am in the on-line training now. I agree with  @Wayne Schulz  that much of what we learn may be forgotten by the time we get around to a live implementation.  The reason I am in the training is to get the unlocking keys and to learn the new features added since WO so I can speak intelligently to a prospect.  Also, much of the old WO has been retained with the best features of JobOps added.  PM is a mild learning curve if you know the mechanics of WO.

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:11
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I'm hesitant to jump on the training right away. I've had really bad experiences with taking a training class, then a project is deferred for a long period of time and all that training investment is ( for me ) forgotten. I'm also hoping that by waiting a bit the training will pick up additional info from real-world experiences.

 I have had a lot of inquiries on this. I personally believe 75% of those inquiries aren't going to be sophisticated enough to run a full MFG but I'm going to facilitate and bill them for the assistance after providing a candid assessment.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
---------------------------------

I hate it when my fucus is taken away....

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:33
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
---------------------------------

I agree with @John Hoyt - Sage should have mandated expiring keys in exchange for recurring ( subscription ) maintenance.

Instead, Sage mostly put this process in the laps of the reseller and embarked on a 3+ year journey that consumed too much in terms of ​administrative overhead.

Asking customers to fax orders to Sage then playing the followup game to figure out whether the fax went through/was received might have been the low point of the process.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:35
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I hate it when my fucus is taken away....

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:33
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com

ALERT - In the online training session and the presenter is making notes of items that need to be fixed. Seems that the training of channel partners is an extension of a beta program.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 12:02
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I agree with @John Hoyt - Sage should have mandated expiring keys in exchange for recurring ( subscription ) maintenance.

Instead, Sage mostly put this process in the laps of the reseller and embarked on a 3+ year journey that consumed too much in terms of ​administrative overhead.

Asking customers to fax orders to Sage then playing the followup game to figure out whether the fax went through/was received might have been the low point of the process.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:35
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I hate it when my fucus is taken away....

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:33
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com

Although I have my issues with Acumatica, I like the way they price the product.  Acumatica offers an option for either subscription or perpetual.  Perpetual is so expensive my guess is this option isn't used much.  I don't agree that Sage should have taken a one time loss of customers and forced everyone to subscription.  Why not offer both? Why not offer all features for both perpetual and subscription?  Why not get as much market share and as many customers as possible, particularly if the underlying code and technology is the same?  

If I wanted to buy a Ford car and the dealer told me it was only available for lease, I would leave and go to the GM dealer down the street to find a similar vehicle I could buy.   If Sage is willing to alienate customers that want to buy rather than rent, I am sure there are other ERP companies that will emerge with affordable buy on premise options.

------------------------------
Doug Higgs
Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 12:02
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I agree with @John Hoyt - Sage should have mandated expiring keys in exchange for recurring ( subscription ) maintenance.

Instead, Sage mostly put this process in the laps of the reseller and embarked on a 3+ year journey that consumed too much in terms of ​administrative overhead.

Asking customers to fax orders to Sage then playing the followup game to figure out whether the fax went through/was received might have been the low point of the process.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:35
From: Beth Bowers
Subject: Production Management Conversions

I hate it when my fucus is taken away....

------------------------------
Beth Bowers
Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, and Cagney
Beth Bowers
269-445-1625


Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:33
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com

With conversion from perpetual to subscription, not giving anything extra over new subscription customers who never paid the up-front costs... is insanity.  They could have easily forced everyone to the new pricing structure, with formerly perpetual customers never going read-only (just being locked out of upgrades, as was previously the case).  If they go off plan and want back on, the either pay all overdue amounts, or lose the perpetual rights.  Simple... and doesn't aggravate perpetual customers (who paid a lot for the software initially) by being locked out of the new features.
SMH.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 05-22-2019 11:33
From: John Hoyt
Subject: Production Management Conversions

As for going to subscription, Sage should never have made it an option, as well as Kelly's promise of no forced migration. In both cases there would be a one-time loss of customers. After years spent trying to convince customers to migrate, this has cost both Sage and the channel a lot of money. It also has taken the focus away. Also, customers do not own the software.

---------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
---------------------------------