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OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

Phil McIntosh

Phil McIntosh03-27-2012 11:10

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 11:16

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:16

Jeff Schwenk

Jeff Schwenk03-27-2012 11:17

Bob Kohlmeyer

Bob Kohlmeyer03-27-2012 11:17

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:17

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:21

Jim Woodhead

Jim Woodhead03-27-2012 11:23

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 11:24

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 11:24

Phil McIntosh

Phil McIntosh03-27-2012 11:24

Beth Bowers

Beth Bowers03-27-2012 11:28

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:35

Jim Woodhead

Jim Woodhead03-27-2012 11:37

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 11:37

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:40

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:45

Jim Woodhead

Jim Woodhead03-27-2012 11:46

Jeff Schwenk

Jeff Schwenk03-27-2012 11:49

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:50

Beth Bowers

Beth Bowers03-27-2012 11:51

Jim Woodhead

Jim Woodhead03-27-2012 11:51

Peter Wolf

Peter Wolf03-27-2012 11:51

Jeff Schwenk

Jeff Schwenk03-27-2012 11:52

Jeff Schwenk

Jeff Schwenk03-27-2012 11:57

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 12:01

Therese Logeais

Therese Logeais03-27-2012 12:02

Wayne Schulz

Wayne Schulz03-27-2012 12:04

Wayne Schulz

Wayne Schulz03-27-2012 15:32

Wayne Schulz

Wayne Schulz03-27-2012 16:40

  • 1.  OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:07
    OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION ENHANCEMENTS CALL. Subtitled: Ok, maybe we were a little premature to dismiss the partners. (Start your commentary!)


  • 2.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:07
    (Sorry to @MichaelNottoli - re-started the thread in the right group this time)


  • 3.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:09
    No worry, just a snarky comment. What's with the code name Renaissance?


  • 4.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:10
    Marketing speak for kill the channel


  • 5.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:12
    LOL. I think it's the ""Sage Transformation"". It's their wake up message internally to respond to the threats and opportunities surrounding us in the brave, new Internet era.


  • 6.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:12
    long-term"" risk - hmm, are they thinking long-term??


  • 7.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:13
    @ThereseLogeais - I think they are thinking long-term on the changes Sage must make to survive. Unfortunately, they feel that the changes need to be IMMEDIATE so they are screwing their short and intermediate term play.


  • 8.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:16
    about?


  • 9.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:16
    I'm confused ...


  • 10.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:17
    Atlas can't handle the math!


  • 11.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:17
    Would be too easy.


  • 12.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:17
    And what does the $25K represent?


  • 13.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:17
    Why not lump them together? 1 deal or less 35%, 2 - 7 40%, 8 - 12 45%, etc.


  • 14.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:20
    He didn't jiist say ""Pretty good value"" did he"" OMG!!


  • 15.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:21
    OMG ... another overly complex slide.


  • 16.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:22
    Such a mess ... Sage 100 is $99 but everything else is an even round number... why not make it simple and uniform?


  • 17.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:23
    Conceptually at least it offers a more reasonable option on the lower end.


  • 18.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:23
    BTW - ""SageCRM.com"" is now branded ""Sage CRM Cloud"". The $39 pupm is for people signed up for a full year (almost everyone does this) and $45 pupm is for people on a month to month.


  • 19.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:23
      |   view attached
    Sage Pricing


  • 20.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:24
    lol - just saw the typo!


  • 21.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:24
    Pricing psychology - I still think that at 23 months to cross over, most people will be inclined to go purchase it once........


  • 22.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:24
    aka maintenance.


  • 23.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:24
    What is ""Buisness"" Care? #snarky


  • 24.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:25
    He's not quite right about that comment re: Sage CRM Cloud pricing - that *is* the standalone pricing.


  • 25.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:26
    How would the SQL licenses work? Accpac people need SQL ... so ... do they need to pay $10 pupm or can they just buy a 5 user version for $1500 at the local computer store?


  • 26.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:26
    @JeffSchwenk - I think people want these options even with the cross-over point. It lets them keep cash in their control and expense out their software vs treating it as a capex.


  • 27.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:27
    So are they comparing apples to apples? Does the perpetual per user pricing include business care?


  • 28.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:28
    Answer: yes gold care included!! -... maybe??


  • 29.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:28
    Was that tier pricing, or tear pricing?


  • 30.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:28
    @JeffSchwenk - I think it includes Gold - unlimited support. At least that's what the original Subscription offering contained. $10 pupm discount if they drop to Silver.


  • 31.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:28
    Buying software isn't consistent with the model.


  • 32.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:29
    @MyronStevenson - Yep. We are moving from buying software to subscribing to functionality.


  • 33.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:31
    So if you're subscribing why would you buy SQL? Do you buy the engine but lease the rest of the car? Should lease to whole thing.


  • 34.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:31
    Subscription pricing is NOT the same as the $2,300 per user pricing, The slide specifically said subscription included the gold plan. Hence my question.


  • 35.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:34
    @JeffSchwenk ???? The subscription does contain Gold Business Care and support. I think the deal is ... you stop paying, you stop getting updates and support from Sage. I don't understand.


  • 36.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:35
      |   view attached
    More Partners slide


  • 37.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:36
    I didn't capture the ROR slide but ... what transfers are EXCLUDED? It seems like the margin will transfer in all cases. What did I miss?


  • 38.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:37
      |   view attached
    Risk of Losing


  • 39.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:37
      |   view attached
    ROR slide


  • 40.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:37
    According to the slide, there are two ways of pricing MAS.now. You can pay a one time per user fee $2300) or a montly fee ($99 pupm indefinitely). The slide specifically mention the $99 pupm rate included the gold plan. Does the $2300 pu one time fee include annual business care? If not, the math changes and it is no longer a 23 month cross over.


  • 41.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:39
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog


  • 42.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:40
      |   view attached
    Value slide


  • 43.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:41
    @JeffSchwenk - I gotcha now. No, the traditional pricing does not include Gold Plan - that is 25% of SRP per year. So you are correct, cross-over changes.


  • 44.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:43
      |   view attached
    Improvements to Business Model for Partners


  • 45.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:45
    Seems like the tier credit is just ""play"" money.


  • 46.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:45
      |   view attached
    Sales and Marketing Engagement Model


  • 47.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:46
    These slides are CRAZY!!!


  • 48.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:47
    100% agree @JimWoodhead ... it really underscores all the different pieces floating around in their minds. I'm not sure they could have simplified them (except the commission slide).


  • 49.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:48
    I wonder if the clients can call the 800 Do Not Call center and get Sage put on their DO NOT CAll list. Several have reported phone calls that are border line harrassment.


  • 50.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:48
    We are building out our PSG group"" - that is the number one comment that should put the fear of god into partners.


  • 51.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:48
    So what was advertised as $110/user per month is now $99/user per month?


  • 52.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:49
    yep


  • 53.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:49
    @JeffSchwenk - Amen! Several of myclients have told me that if the over aggressive pricks from Business Care call again they are going to scream.


  • 54.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:49
    And it drops to $89 pupm if they opt for Silver Care instead of Gold Care.


  • 55.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:50
    So what is to prevent Sage from keeping the higher qualified leads and dumping the dogs???


  • 56.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:50
    What the heck do these arrows means? circled in red!!


  • 57.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:50
      |   view attached
    Channel Participation & Engagement


  • 58.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:51
    The arrows represent lead flow from inception to close.


  • 59.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:51
    My team is unimpressed.


  • 60.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:51
    Close out March strong"" - Even if it takes all of April to do it!!!!!!!!!


  • 61.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:51
    Clear as mud


  • 62.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:51
      |   view attached
    Next Steps for Partners


  • 63.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:52
    1 new client every quarter or 2 every six months is not much of a consession on Sage's part. Pretty much the same. More talk of direct sales so they are not backing away from this at all.


  • 64.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:52
    I only see two questions that came in?


  • 65.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:54
    I think with direct sales the emphasis is ... they are calling install base for partners to introduce additive products (CRM, HR, Payroll, SPS, etc.). If they uncover oppos and the partner invovled is certified, they will kick it back to the partner. The catch that I've heard is that if they identify the opportunity, there will be no commission paid. Still not officially announced but I heard this one straight from the top of the food chain in install base sales.


  • 66.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:55
    I can just see the conversation with end users. Customer: ""Why do you have someone else besides my VAR calling me about {Sage CRM/FAS/Abra/whatever}?"" Sage: ""Well your VAR didn't sell 2 new customers in the past 6 months."" Customer: ""And this is my problem why? GO away.


  • 67.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:56
    Actually @PhilMcIntosh - their calling efforts have nothing to do with whether or not the VAR has made their obligations. The calls are going to happen across the install base - regardless of partner tiers. Again ... this is pre-mature and not official yet.


  • 68.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:56
    So do we need to record our conversations with out customers about Sage CRM just in case?


  • 69.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:57
    Allow us to shut down the solution"" - G Orwell would love that line


  • 70.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:57
    They ""KNOW"" when the customer uses the software.


  • 71.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:57
    I was told that you will be able to register leads. Yes... register leads within your own customer base. You read it right. I'm not saying it makes sense. That's what I heard.


  • 72.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:57
    Maybe they also KNOW when a customer is getting a fricking error message.


  • 73.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:57
    The :customer enhancement program""....


  • 74.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:58
    Doesn't that mean they won't be able to opt out??


  • 75.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:58
    ....until we change the requirements again. Hopefully nobody is buying this shit


  • 76.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:58
    I don't mind getting stung by the scorpion.......


  • 77.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:59
    @ThereseLogeais - Exactly. Well... they can opt out but they better bring out their greenbar paper and pencils and erasers.


  • 78.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:59
    OK, I just zoned out and heard Charlie Brown adults going ""wah, wah, wah WAH


  • 79.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 11:59
    And if the license will be read only - they how can you go after a customer who ""accesses"" the software. They should be able to look things up. Sage is blowing smoke.


  • 80.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:00
    ROR - must have been a response to Hightower/SKW


  • 81.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:00
    The system doesn't become read only ..... yet. Otherwise, why are they concerned.


  • 82.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:01
    5 days? what happened to 15?


  • 83.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:01
    All the big, acquisitive partners demanded that change. And the small partners that dream of selling out and aggregating sales wanted it to. Otherwise our dumb businesses have no value. #SHOCKING


  • 84.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:02
    @ThereseLogeais agree.... Although I thought it was 14 days!!


  • 85.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:02
    What is the 5 days in relation to? I missed that.


  • 86.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:02
    So GOLD is the only option in subscription now? But Silver/Gold is still an option in perpetual


  • 87.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:02
    I thought 14 too after I commented. sorry!


  • 88.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:03
    The grace period when they receive ROR form


  • 89.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:03
    The lenght of time the user has to rescind their ROR request.


  • 90.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:03
    That's the third time Joe said ""I'll be honest with you."" This makes me nervous!


  • 91.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:03
    when a customer submits an ROR, the change doesn't take effect until 5 or formerly 14 business days to give the existing partner a chance to retain the customer.


  • 92.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:03
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit....


  • 93.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:04
    Send questions to eatshit@sage.com


  • 94.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:04
    @MichaelNottoli - Agree. Anyone that says ""I'll be honest with you"" is selling shit and thinking they are getting away with it.


  • 95.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:04
    Have to give them some credit, at least they did listen to feedback and actually made some changes. Still some challenges, but it's much better than what was first released.


  • 96.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:06
    I agree with @BobKohlmeyer. I guess the thought of most partners universally dis-couraging renewal of M&S got them sweating. Pascal would be out of a job in twelve months if that happened. Might still be...


  • 97.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:07
    Regarding the ROR ... do you guys actually ever ""save"" these clients that file? As far as I'm concerned, if a client files one on me without any warning shots, I've screwed up that relationship and wish them the best of luck. The clients I want are the ones that know that they can come to me and say ""Pete - you fucked up here - make it right.


  • 98.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:07
    I agree with Peter. Notice Tom was nowhere to be found on this call.


  • 99.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:10
    @PeterWolf I agree about 'saving' ROR clients. I think I've called one of them simply because I liked them but they were a PITA customer and I wasn't too sorry to have lost them. (Nice people, bad clients.)


  • 100.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:12
    Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. None of us are perfect so the clients that don't communicate that they are pissed will always be a tough customer.


  • 101.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:12
    I saw nothing about adding user licenses to existing customers or new modules. Did I miss something?


  • 102.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:14
    One assumes the details will reveal the devil......................


  • 103.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:15
    I heard nothing that changed my mind that Sage is a bit out of control and poorly communicating. If you cut your BEST partners out of an award dinner -- what will you do next? Keep thinking about that because it's the most important piece of foreshadowing that everyone overlooked.


  • 104.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:15
    This was only about subscription pricing. I think they are still trying to figure out mix and match for add-on modules (CRM, HR, etc.) and traditional pricing. Clients will still be able to buy traditional priced modules going forward (from what I understood).


  • 105.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:17
    Speaking of award dinners. I'm currently accepting nominations for the Sage Spirit Award. :) http://cdn.na.sage.com/sagemail/SageMail/Spirit_Comm_Serv_Nominations_2011.html Unless we all agree to nominate Greg Talburt?


  • 106.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:20
    I imagine Sage is getting several nominations for you right now....


  • 107.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:21
    Personally... I wrote in Greg Talburt ... he seemed the obvious choice.


  • 108.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:21
    @PeterWolf - are you sure you still want it? The way they are going you may get to Nashville and find out they expect the winner to PAY for the dinner...


  • 109.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:22
    Peter it may have been about subscription but they did mention tier qualifications too so I was wondering about how sales to existing clients impact your tier qualifications.


  • 110.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 12:26
    I think he mentioned it but I was sort of in the Charlie Brown Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah mode that Beth mentioned. The only thing I heard was that new subscription sales will help your overall tier level but that's all I heard.


  • 111.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 13:08
    Remember - miss a subscription payment and they'll turn your software off - so customers can't go ""off plan"".


  • 112.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 13:26
    Vote here: http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=106271&type=member&item=103915609


  • 113.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 14:33
    Like the poll you set up Wayne. The results are very informative.


  • 114.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 14:57
    .02 - my summary of what really was said - http://erplife.com/2012/03/27/sage-transformation-journey-more-flexible-change/


  • 115.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 15:27
    So is $99/month the new price and $110/month is out? (BTW its psychological that $99 is seen as ""less expensive"" than $100).


  • 116.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 15:32
    I think $99 is the new $110


  • 117.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 15:32
    @DawnAnastasi - I get the idea of the psychology behind the $99. (which btw has never actually been proven in scientific studies) My point is ... why do the end in 9 trick for one of the prices but not the rest? Consistency in presentation is part of marketing success.


  • 118.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 16:33
      |   view attached
    I've attached the ppt from the just-ended Sage subscription plan call. In the call, they reversed their position on some important issues, but not on others: o Subscription plan pricing is more competitive. (Slide 6) o They have changed the ROR rules to conform to what we're used to. i.e. New ROR gets all the revenues. (Slide 8) o They have relaxed the new business measurement period to semesters from quarters, but they still require two per semester. They have also added a $$$ threshold to make it easier to qualify. (Slide 7) o They have increased the partner margins. (Slide 5) The margin changes are still not competitive with other publishers, so that's pretty troubling and I'll get into that later. An increase of 1% in margin for every deal you sell in a semester is not satisfactory, IMO. NetSuite's margin structure gives virtually all the partners 30 points on renewals, instead of Sage's 20 points. Also unsatisfactory is Sage's unwillingness to protect the reseller who sold the deal. We might conceivably spend $3K to $5K in hard costs closing a deal, but if the EU changes their ROR in the first six months, you have likely not even recovered your cost of sales. There are many reasons that an EU would switch ROR's that have nothing to do with support quality. One of the most common is an acquisition or merger. So, let's do the math. Let's take a 20 user MAS200 distribution system. The per user perpetual license is 20 x $2,245 or $44,900 in purchase costs. The annual maintenance renewal for that system is 21% of that, or $9,429. If that same EU switched right now to subscription pricing, they would be paying $23,760 per year. I don't understand how Sage could possibly make a case that you could convert an on-plan EU to subscription pricing. Let's look at our cashflow on a perpetual sale vs. subscription. In the chart below, perpetual margin is assumed to be 55% on product, and 25% on SMP renewals. Subscription margin is assumed to be 35 points on the first year, 20 points thereafter. Year Perpetual Accumulated Subscription Accumulated Difference 1 $27,052 $27,052 $8,316 $8,316 ($18,736) 2 $2,357 $29,409 $4,752 $13,068 ($16,341) 3 $2,357 $31,766 $4,752 $17,820 ($13,946) 4 $2,357 $34,123 $4,752 $22,572 ($11,551) 5 $2,357 $36,480 $4,752 $27,324 ($9,156) 6 $2,357 $38,837 $4,752 $32,076 ($6,761) 7 $2,357 $41,194 $4,752 $36,828 ($4,366) 8 $2,357 $43,551 $4,752 $41,580 ($1,971) 7 $2,357 $45,908 $4,752 $46,332 ($424) You can see that there's no breakeven, even after 7 years. Some time in year 8, the analysis swings in favor of the partner, IF the EU is still on subscription, and IF you are still their ROR. From Sage's standpoint, the analysis is much more palatable. Sage's breakeven analysis: Year Perpetual Accumulated Subscription Accumulated Difference 1 $27,277 $27,277 $15,444 $15,444 ($11,833) 2 $7,072 $34,349 $15,444 $30,888 ($3,461) 3 $7,072 $41,421 $15,444 $46,332 $4,911 Wow, that's remarkable! Sage breaks even in 2.6 years, and everything after that is gravy. No wonder they are all in favor of this. This is Sage's plan to monetize their business by getting their partners to give back their margins. This analysis is a little more favorable toward Sage for partners who are getting lower margins than I used in my analysis, but not by much. This is nothing but a big land grab. It is, essentially, Sage using their channel to monetize their transformation to subscription plans. Hopefully, there will be little adoption of these plans by the channel, which will force Sage to increase their margins on renewals.

    Attachment(s)



  • 119.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-27-2012 16:40
    Great analysis/thoughts Doug!


  • 120.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 03:02
    I apparently totally missed that the 90 % renewals requirement was struck from Sage's revised subscription pricing updated transformation: Via Kevin Rooker LinkedIn: Please note that the 90% renewal rate requirement is ONLY a requirement for receiving cross sell leads. It has no impact on subscription and whether a partner will continue to earn the ongoing subscriprtion margin. This was covered during today's call with Joe and we will clarify in the updated FAQ. The only requirement for a partner to continue to earn the 20% ongoing subscription margin is to sell 2 New Units per 6 month measurement period (or $25,000 in New License sales). If a partner does not meet this requirement after the 6 month measurement period, they will have another 6 months during the cure period to meet the requirement of selling 2 new units or $25k in New License. The partner will lose their ongoing 20% subscription margin only if they do not meet the requirement after the cure period. Hope this helps to clarify. Thanks


  • 121.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 03:04
    While this may have been covered - I don't have it in my notes and I do not recall then clearly stating that the 90% renewal is being eliminated. They spoke a lot about the move from quarterly to semi-annual measurement.


  • 122.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 04:11
    While it wasn't stated, they mentioned that the ONLY requirement was 2 new deals or 25K in revenue.


  • 123.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 04:16
    I was glad that they did mention a need to do better at communicating.....


  • 124.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 05:22
    122 Comments, 1 thread...I think that's a record


  • 125.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 06:24
    @WayneSchulz Per Kevin's comment, so if I sell 0 units in a semester, does that mean I have to sell 4 units the next semester to cure, or just get back to 2 units that semester? That being said, putting up hard dollar amounts is like setting up taxes such as the AMT based on fixed amounts without taking inflation into account. Is was a crap lot easier selling 2 new units a semester in 1998 than it was in 2011. The ability to close deals is far more influenced by the economy and the quality of the developers software than it is by the VAR. We are spending 3x on marketing in the last 12 months than in prior years with only 1/2 the results. WTF else can we do?


  • 126.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 06:28
    Sorry I missed the call yesterday. 1. @Jeff I think it is a 31 month cross over on from subscription to perpetual when you add in a gold plan to the perpetual. 2. o the cost for hosting varies depending upon what modules you actually use, because if you need a financial bundle the hosting cost is $94 but $60 if you use distribution. 3. If you take 25% maintenance it is about $30 per month for financial and $46 for distribution. If you sign a customer to a 3 year subscription contract and sell a perpetual license, you can pocket $35 or $53 per month as your maintenance margin. Sage still looks at all of this as marketing and not from a business perspective. I still like my model.


  • 127.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 06:40
    So ... what did I miss here? As @DougDeane stated above, apart from the ROR issue (which was a non-starter but they could change it at any time so who cares any more?) and lowering prices a bit, they didn't change anything really. Pascal needs to go back to Europe and they need to put someone who understands a channel in charge.


  • 128.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 07:20
    Wayne has a scorpion, I have king Pascal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes


  • 129.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 07:36
    One more issue I see is that with the subscription customer, they will be on the Gold plan. There goes our opportunity for support service revenue. Also, a five user distributin bundle was $6,000, now for at the user pricing it is $11,225 (and the module pricing is ever worse). Did I miss something? When did Sage make over $5,000 worth of improvements to MAS???


  • 130.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 07:42
    Based on their many survey's, that is what the customer has been asking for.............. Be careful not to drop the soap when using the Sage rec center showers.......


  • 131.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 07:43
    I think King Pascal the Scorpion is assuming that since M$ announced moving their ERPs to Azure that they will stop giving away the on premise licenses.


  • 132.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 08:44
    Subscription pricing is a 5 user or below new deal and/or reinstatement tool. Sage has somewhat hinted at that. Tom Miller at the LinkedIn meeting stated that Subscription was all about new user growth. It's not going to be for existing customers. Personally I'm counseling customers to look at their recurring revenue and weigh the costs. If Sage has a cheaper recurring maintenance that benefits the customer that's what I'm going to sell them. It's not the customer's fault that Sage keeps changing pricing models. The only customer we should really be focussing on moving forward are those requiring services that we can provide (aside from purely break/fix/support).


  • 133.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 09:52
    @DougDeane - Regarding your analysis above ... to make it equivalent, you need to put Gold plan at 25% for the renewals and not Silver plan at 21%. It moves the equivalency up sooner. Don't get me wrong - either way it's irrelevant because: a) Fantasizing that Sage will not change the payouts at a future date is just that - a fantasy. b) Why would anyone sell a customer Gold plan? Most of my customers want to deal with me and not Sage. The more I think about this, the more pissed off I get.


  • 134.  RE: OFFICIAL THREAD FOR THE 03/27/12 SAGE SUBSCRIPTION

    Posted 03-28-2012 17:43
    Only two of our customers are on a Gold plan and none on Silver until now. Our customers would rather call us for any support issues rather than Sage. The new required Silver plan for current customers, and now the Gold for new subscription customers is requiring support plans that customers do not want but have to pay for. This will reduce our contact with our customers and our opportunities to evaluate services other than support that we could be providing our customers. I see this as decreasing customer service, not offering a higher level of service. Sage does not know our customers or their particular business cirumstances. I see this as nothing but a money grab and not a new and better way to service the customer. And as to Sage doing a better job keeping customers on a maintenance plan, the only customers we do not have on plan are ones who are out of business. That is not something Sage can take credit for. Our customers stay on plan because of their trust in us and our services. We have also convienced them of the benefits of staying on a mantenance plan. Our customers HATE Sage contacting them. They always call us to ask what is up with Sage bugging them about other products, training and maintenance renewals. They look to us as their consultant, and for training, not to Sage for service and advise. I am just plan sick and tired of the constantly being jerked around. The changes never stop. If I were younger, I would be looking at other software to sell or get out of this business completely. We may decide to look into becoming a Var for other software anyway. Something we are going to investigate at least. I am with Peter, I am just plan pissed off!