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  • 1.  More Avalara Observations

    Posted 11-16-2020 08:55

    I have a very unsophisticated customer who needed sales tax processing.

    I've previously written about them before and talked to Jeff Roth over at Avalara about most of these issues.

    I think this experience bears repeating as you may run into this as you approach year-end. I've also had many customers emerge just fine from Avalara implementations and those tend to be more sophisticated with a true CFO/Controller. My caution is really about the smaller less sophisticated customer who is suddenly thrust into the need for sales tax automation.

    If you read nothing else - read this

    a. Don't get involved in being the free Avalara complaint desk - price in YOUR  implementation fee before you even order the Avalara ( or you may be the unpaid complaint desk )
    b. The AVATAX connector, in my experience, is tricker and buggier than I recall - it updates seemingly every few days and almost any issue you experience with Avalara that seems program-related is going to involve someone telling you to download and install the latest AVATAX. This requires exclusive access to Sage and can be tricky if you have many mods and need to figure out if there will be a conflict ( there usually isn't ). Just keep this in mind and don't presume like I did that it's the same old stable Avalara.

    Here is my experience relying primarily on Avalara for the implementation

    Once the customer purchases Avalara


    1. Avalara assigns a myriad of people to the implementation - none take ultimate responsibility for the project success (including the account manager which in my opinion is a glorified complaint desk ). The implementation manager in my experience hasn't seemed to know much about Sage 100 beyond advising you to reinstall. The customer must purchase implementation separately or Avalara will not assist with the implementation.

    From what I have seen most of Avalara's help is templates that they email and Zoom meetings. Questions involve scheduling another Zoom meeting - often with another Avalara person.


    2. Most of the Avalara "training" and "implementation" I've seen involve emails with lengthy lists of tasks - most of which lead to videos on the Avalara website and/or short videos. The customer is expected to watch and learn from all of this. The ability to email the account manager with questions is still there although in my observation seems to result in just more emailed links and videos. 

    In my experience, the account manager is more like the complaint desk. From observation, they don't seem to get involved in much project management. That's largely left up to the customer through Avalara will continue to email lengthy lists of tasks and due dates. If your customer does not take this task list and manage it themselves their implementation is likely to drag on.

    3. The AVATAX connect is more problematic ( buggy ) than I remember. I'm presently waiting for a Zoom meeting with the Avalara implementation person to review a *memory* error in one portion of the setup. Up to now all the advice is essentially re-install he connector. Avalara is the gatekeeper before you can eventually get through to DSD who knows whether this is actually a bug or not. You cannot call DSD directly without first working with Avalara.

    For example, installing the AVATAX connector doesn't check for pre-requisites - the absence of which can prohibit anyone from going into a function integrates to Avalara ( invoicing, orders, cash receipts ). Hopefully, you figure out the fix because the instructions on how to install the AVATAX connector appear a couple of years out of date. I had to browse Google for the fix that worked for me which involved copying a DLL into the SYSWOW64. I was lucky because no other mods were in use so I could temporarily rename \LINKS and get this customer back up and running as they were screaming in my ear at 8am.

    If this had happened with a customer with 5 or 6 other enhancements it would have been a much more serious issue. Especially if that customer had a large shipping department. Thankfully that wasn't the case for me. Just be careful and don't presume this all goes 100% smoothly.

    4. I haven't yet gotten to marketplaces yet. This is where the company sells through a third-party like Amazon where that third-party is often also required to collect and remit the sales tax on behalf of the seller ( your customer ). I expect based upon a conversation with other partners that tracking this type of sale tax is going to be a largely manual process for at least a little while. The instructions on the Avalara site are fairly vague as to how to set this up.

    When you look for help on the Avalara site quite a bit of it is vague. The service works with many other ERP systems that you wade through lots of help for Sage 300 but not much that seemed specific to Sage 100. It's also possible that I'm a bad searcher of info on the Avalara website.

    What's my point there? 

    I always thought Avalara to be a simple install that required minimal consultant involvement. With very experienced companies that have a CFO/Controller that is probably still the case. Just don't get caught as I did with a smaller customer who gets lost trying to keep up with the myriad of steps and employees that Avalara provides. You should price in an implementation alongside the Avalara quote and be very upfront that you will charge them ( as will Avalara ) if the customer ultimately is unable to self-install.




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    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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  • 2.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 11-17-2020 08:06
    I have to second what @Wayne Schulz said re an in-between customer.  They are a very small company (10 users), but the CFO is one smart woman. HOWEVER - the amount of work she has had to do to setup information both in Sage AND on Avalara's website to cover all of her sales tax issues (they sell projects which involve labor and material and labor's taxability hinges on multiple things in each state) has just been overwhelming.  Also, they are using Job Cost, and JC can't handle mixed taxability, so there's that.  AND they are using Streamlined Sales Tax, so some overrides in Sage are ignored by Avalara (hence the massive setup within Avalara itself).  I am in awe of what she has accomplished and what she understands, and the company is so lucky to have her - but most companies of this size are NOT going to have someone to wade through all of that.​

    Sales tax itself is incredibly complex.  While Avalara certainly helps calculate it correctly, they haven't done much to simplify it - and to be honest, maybe no one could.  But just don't think of it as taking a burden away from your client so they "don't have to worry about sales tax anymore".

    ------------------------------
    Beth Bowers
    Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, Cagney and Daisy (NO Oxford comma - shriek!)
    Tennessee Software Solutions
    269-445-1625
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 11-17-2020 17:22
    I second Wayne's observations here, too. Avalara is far more difficult to set up than it looks. 

    But I don't think Avalara is alone. Most smaller Sage customers don't have the internal resources to interact with a 3rd-party's project management. Unless it's a Sage 100-focused 3rd party, they will inevitably try to unload things on "the Sage expert" whether that is internal or external. I think this is getting worse, too. 

    So, definitely offer your customer a package that includes your paid project management. You will be the "transmission" between your customer and the vendor. Clearly define what you expect the customer to do (mostly detailed data entry), but expect to do lots of interpretation, education, testing, etc. But don't do this without being paid a lump sum up-front; NOBODY wants to pay hourly "project management fee" charges. One possible rule of thumb: charge x% (probably >10% and <25%) of the implementation fee (for an Avalara or an e-commerce job), or something similar on the first year's subscription. Upfront, or quarterly -- NOT hourly.

    Remember that a significant portion of our value-add for customers is our technical knowledge about generally how all this works, and how we use it to keep these vendors honest.

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    Jerry Norman
    VP, 90 Minds
    Smartbridge Partners
    512.419.1444 x112
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  • 4.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 11-19-2020 10:08
    This morning from the owner: 

    Wayne and xxx,
    The Avalara implementation process is hair-pulling frustrating. Wayne, I am so appreciative of your persistence, recommendations, and regular updates.
    I started an email to xx and yy [ Avalara employees ] this evening outlining needed/priority steps for [ company ]./ Avalara  to resolve:
    a.) Integration of  Sage 100 with Avatax-  Emphasizing Wayne's communications with Avalara's, zz [ Avalara employee ] to resolve the "ERROR MESSAGE" issue.
          This is #1 Priority
    b.) Confirming the completed SST- Registration
    c.) Uniformity of online username & password for the various "subsets" of Avalara: Avatax; CertCapture; Business Licences; Sandbox
    While Avalara seems to have one of the premier software programs to compute sales tax, it is very weak in managing the setup to get to that step.
    It is very clear that they are very disorganized with implementation.......too many videos, too many segregated reps, no case numbers, too much orange.
    All these individuals, all the departments, all the marketing..... does make me question their validity.
    All to say, this raises a red flag to me.   Not unlike ENRON


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    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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  • 5.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 11-19-2020 16:04

    According to AValara the reason it took so long for them to address the bug in AVATAX connector: 

    I will follow up with the engineer who assisted Wayne during the call on 11/16. However It looks like a ticket was submitted to DSD who are the people who wrote the bridge between sage and avatax. there appears to be ton of custom work done in your sage environment and something is interferring with the avatax connection.


    Um, close. ...
    Turns out it's a bug in AVATAX connector where the PO module wasn't activated so there was no PO_VendorPurchaseAddress which apparently triggers this issue.
    No other modes except Avalra


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    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 01-27-2021 08:58
    Here’s a brief update on my customer’s dealings with Avalara.

    Nothing has gotten markedly better - or worse.

    As a small customer they are seeing a regular rotation of people assigned to this account. Each person promised to followup on the prior questions which the prior person promised to follow up on.

    I think the customer is caught in a game of hot potato as one Avalara rep after another comes and goes.

    They rotate about once a month.

    Certainly a part of the blame falls on the customer for not having a CFO and at least two qualified accounting people to dedicate to their internal implementation.

    TL;DR: Set your customer expectations. Small companies without internal accounting skills are going to need help from someone other than Avalara.

    So long as you explain this to the customer in advance you can likely keep yourself out of the line of fire.

    In my customer situation I have to step in and become project manager ( our current Avalara rep sounds like they’re reading from the “How to implement Avalara on Sage” manual )

    Be prepared and don’t get taken by surprise that this enhancement is possibly going to take more of your time than you thought.

    You also need to bill some part of this while Avalara bills another part. And - yes - even though in my opinion and observation the Avalara implementation is subpar - you should pay the tax for Avalara implementation or the company spends most of their time telling you that you didn’t buy it but you should have - so sorry.

    Avalara does assign an account manager though I have no idea what the person does. We heard from them at the outset when they (mistakenly) accused the owner of the company of not buy Avalara’s implementation help. After that they seemed to go into hiding.

    YMMv

    ---------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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  • 7.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 01-27-2021 09:09
    Currently dealing with Avalara because a very good customer of mine, who has never had payment issues, missed an invoice from Avalara and was cut off for non-payment.  This is astounding because 1) surely Avalara would try harder than just one invoice (SOME sort of follow up - second copy of invoice, phone call, SOMETHING to a good client to see why they hadn't paid) and 2) we have been attempting to get this resolved for several days now. 

    The latest response is that possibly they will have to be setup as a new client instead of re-instated.  WTH?  The client told me they have never tried this hard to get a vendor to take their money to no avail before.

    ------------------------------
    Beth Bowers
    Mom to Samson, Peanut, ChiChi, Canton, Cagney and Daisy (NO Oxford comma - shriek!)
    Tennessee Software Solutions
    269-445-1625
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 01-27-2021 09:26
    Edited by Wayne Schulz 01-27-2021 10:27
    I had a somewhat similar billing related issue. An existing customer of Avalara went through some M&A and brought on several new entities.

    I think it took two weeks to bring up the additional accounts so they could work. And this customer needed no training or technical support whatsoever. All they needed/wanted was for Avalara to flip on the switch for additional accounts.

    To be fair I think this also happened over a holiday period. I just remember it being very tough to reach the right person to get any type of status.

    ---------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ---------------------------------



    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: More Avalara Observations

    Posted 01-27-2021 09:29
    BTW - I still recommend Avalara. Now I give the customer a heads-up on what my experiences have been so they can adjust their expectations accordingly. I also adjust my billing to recognize that I need to be more involved and pick up any slack.

    For a customer without a CFO and 2 experienced accounting staff I would not be afraid to quote my services starting at $7,500 or higher.

    This is a “set the customer expectations up front”



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    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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