General Consultant Discussion

Learned A LOT at MOTM....already doing installations and upgrades at fixed price....
Now I am looking into requiring maintenace agreements in order to get support...

At the moment I have some customers at $240/month only for remote support....other at $400/month....with onsite support...

By the way, my current hourly rate here in PR is average $120....and customers complain...

Anyone willing to share ideas?? Or rates??? Plans???

---------------------------------
Lourdes Sobrino
LU2. DSD Puerto Rico
Guaynabo Puerto Rico
787.485.9638
---------------------------------

Until I started doing this all one way - fixed price - I found that I was forever making exceptions.
Now I tell the customer that it's a fixed price right up front.

The hardest people to change are your existing customers.

I think I'd start by pricing your regular work at a fixed price. Gradually work them into an annual agreement. If you know them well enough price in the annual upgrade as part of the plan.

For those who are against going on any type of plan, I create a pre-pay by credit card and have created a very high per incident rate. This applies to everything - quotes, helping with Sage subscriptions, etc. Typically I use this mostly for people who contact me off the web who "haven't needed a consultant in the past 20 years.... dropped all maintenance and support ... because they never need any maintenance or support .... and consultants are useless ". 

Whatever you do - never go into a NEW customer meeting and give an hourly rate or estimated number of hours. It's fine to have a deadline to complete something but as soon as you give rate and hours and also a fixed price --- you've painted yourself into the not-to-exceed corner. All new customers whether they are already using Sage or buying it brand new must come on as a  fixed price customer and must have an annual agreement with you. These are the easiest to sell but don't ever give them an hourly rate or they will work you into a corner. Be prepared to walk away from any that balk. Let those who balk go and become a problem customer for someone else.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

For existing customers who don't want to spend any time helping to determine scope I tend to quote very high and have developed a minimum fee for specific types of work -- Crystal Reports might be one minimum, an upgrade might be another. 

I have had GREAT luck with three pricing options and highly recommend providing three prices.

Mine usually go something like (sample numbers): 

1. I do everything off-site and within x days - $ 500
2. I'll come on site for some meetings (1 or 2) and the rest off-site with completion within x days - $1,700
3. I'll do everything on-site and/or after-hours with completion ASAP - $4,000

Almost always they'll select option #2 and many times (perhaps over 50%) they take option #3. I don't sell a lot of option #1 but it's always their choice.


Also, make sure you put an expiration on every proposal. I've found many customers are all hot and heavy to get your quote then they go into a permanent meeting and can't be reached. I usually expire everything within 10 days. I never give them a work plan or any type of blueprint as to how they could do the work but I will give broad steps.


P.S. - Don't give away after hours work. We all tend to do this for no added cost because it's more convenient for <g class="gr_ gr_172 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Grammar only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="172" data-gr-id="172">US</g> but it's also lots more convenient for customers. For an <g class="gr_ gr_827 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="827" data-gr-id="827">upgrade</g> my option #1 might not include doing an overnight conversion which means their staff will sit and wait.  I think there is a lot of value in <g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">after </g><g class="gr_ gr_498 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="498" data-gr-id="498"><g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">hours</g> / weekend</g> work priced much higher provided you have the capacity.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:14
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

Until I started doing this all one way - fixed price - I found that I was forever making exceptions.
Now I tell the customer that it's a fixed price right up front.

The hardest people to change are your existing customers.

I think I'd start by pricing your regular work at a fixed price. Gradually work them into an annual agreement. If you know them well enough price in the annual upgrade as part of the plan.

For those who are against going on any type of plan, I create a pre-pay by credit card and have created a very high per incident rate. This applies to everything - quotes, helping with Sage subscriptions, etc. Typically I use this mostly for people who contact me off the web who "haven't needed a consultant in the past 20 years.... dropped all maintenance and support ... because they never need any maintenance or support .... and consultants are useless ".

Whatever you do - never go into a NEW customer meeting and give an hourly rate or estimated number of hours. It's fine to have a deadline to complete something but as soon as you give rate and hours and also a fixed price --- you've painted yourself into the not-to-exceed corner. All new customers whether they are already using Sage or buying it brand new must come on as a  fixed price customer and must have an annual agreement with you. These are the easiest to sell but don't ever give them an hourly rate or they will work you into a corner. Be prepared to walk away from any that balk. Let those who balk go and become a problem customer for someone else.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

I agree with everything Wayne said. We've not had an hourly billing event in 5 years. All fixed price.

For us, the 3-level proposal (good, better, best) was the key. I recall that we started annual agreements, "Knowledge Transfer Agreement", first. This is meant to, a) cover 80% of tech support calls, and b) encourage calling us whenever any question comes to them. The primary differentiators among the KTA levels are the response speed and amount of discount on a fixed-price "basic" upgrade. We also offer a monthly auto-payment option (with a 20% higher annual price) which several customers willingly pay.

In my experience, offering fixed-price without 3 options to choose from is doomed to fail. The beauty of 3-choices is that customers ALWAYS start thinking about which one to choose, NOT whether or not to buy it. It is magical.

If you'd like to discuss, feel free to call me.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
Austin TX
5124191444x112
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:19
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

For existing customers who don't want to spend any time helping to determine scope I tend to quote very high and have developed a minimum fee for specific types of work -- Crystal Reports might be one minimum, an upgrade might be another.

I have had GREAT luck with three pricing options and highly recommend providing three prices.

Mine usually go something like (sample numbers):

1. I do everything off-site and within x days - $ 500
2. I'll come on site for some meetings (1 or 2) and the rest off-site with completion within x days - $1,700
3. I'll do everything on-site and/or after-hours with completion ASAP - $4,000

Almost always they'll select option #2 and many times (perhaps over 50%) they take option #3. I don't sell a lot of option #1 but it's always their choice.


Also, make sure you put an expiration on every proposal. I've found many customers are all hot and heavy to get your quote then they go into a permanent meeting and can't be reached. I usually expire everything within 10 days. I never give them a work plan or any type of blueprint as to how they could do the work but I will give broad steps.


P.S. - Don't give away after hours work. We all tend to do this for no added cost because it's more convenient for <g class="gr_ gr_172 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Grammar only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="172" data-gr-id="172">US</g> but it's also lots more convenient for customers. For an <g class="gr_ gr_827 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="827" data-gr-id="827">upgrade</g> my option #1 might not include doing an overnight conversion which means their staff will sit and wait.  I think there is a lot of value in <g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">after </g><g class="gr_ gr_498 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="498" data-gr-id="498"><g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">hours</g> / weekend</g> work priced much higher provided you have the capacity.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:14
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

Until I started doing this all one way - fixed price - I found that I was forever making exceptions.
Now I tell the customer that it's a fixed price right up front.

The hardest people to change are your existing customers.

I think I'd start by pricing your regular work at a fixed price. Gradually work them into an annual agreement. If you know them well enough price in the annual upgrade as part of the plan.

For those who are against going on any type of plan, I create a pre-pay by credit card and have created a very high per incident rate. This applies to everything - quotes, helping with Sage subscriptions, etc. Typically I use this mostly for people who contact me off the web who "haven't needed a consultant in the past 20 years.... dropped all maintenance and support ... because they never need any maintenance or support .... and consultants are useless ".

Whatever you do - never go into a NEW customer meeting and give an hourly rate or estimated number of hours. It's fine to have a deadline to complete something but as soon as you give rate and hours and also a fixed price --- you've painted yourself into the not-to-exceed corner. All new customers whether they are already using Sage or buying it brand new must come on as a  fixed price customer and must have an annual agreement with you. These are the easiest to sell but don't ever give them an hourly rate or they will work you into a corner. Be prepared to walk away from any that balk. Let those who balk go and become a problem customer for someone else.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

The MASTERS have spoken!!!  All great advice!  Maybe John Shaver will chime in as well as he was presented the original MOTM session to the group.

Pick a couple friendly clients to begin this journey with.  Work out the kinks with them.  And you can use them as advocates that the resisters can talk talk to.

You may end up firing half of your clients.  But you will also be twice as profitable!  Remember, VALUE, not cost is your new mantra!

Good Luck.

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 12:02
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Maintenance Plans

I agree with everything Wayne said. We've not had an hourly billing event in 5 years. All fixed price.

For us, the 3-level proposal (good, better, best) was the key. I recall that we started annual agreements, "Knowledge Transfer Agreement", first. This is meant to, a) cover 80% of tech support calls, and b) encourage calling us whenever any question comes to them. The primary differentiators among the KTA levels are the response speed and amount of discount on a fixed-price "basic" upgrade. We also offer a monthly auto-payment option (with a 20% higher annual price) which several customers willingly pay.

In my experience, offering fixed-price without 3 options to choose from is doomed to fail. The beauty of 3-choices is that customers ALWAYS start thinking about which one to choose, NOT whether or not to buy it. It is magical.

If you'd like to discuss, feel free to call me.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
Austin TX
5124191444x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:19
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

For existing customers who don't want to spend any time helping to determine scope I tend to quote very high and have developed a minimum fee for specific types of work -- Crystal Reports might be one minimum, an upgrade might be another.

I have had GREAT luck with three pricing options and highly recommend providing three prices.

Mine usually go something like (sample numbers):

1. I do everything off-site and within x days - $ 500
2. I'll come on site for some meetings (1 or 2) and the rest off-site with completion within x days - $1,700
3. I'll do everything on-site and/or after-hours with completion ASAP - $4,000

Almost always they'll select option #2 and many times (perhaps over 50%) they take option #3. I don't sell a lot of option #1 but it's always their choice.


Also, make sure you put an expiration on every proposal. I've found many customers are all hot and heavy to get your quote then they go into a permanent meeting and can't be reached. I usually expire everything within 10 days. I never give them a work plan or any type of blueprint as to how they could do the work but I will give broad steps.


P.S. - Don't give away after hours work. We all tend to do this for no added cost because it's more convenient for <g class="gr_ gr_172 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Grammar only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="172" data-gr-id="172">US</g> but it's also lots more convenient for customers. For an <g class="gr_ gr_827 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="827" data-gr-id="827">upgrade</g> my option #1 might not include doing an overnight conversion which means their staff will sit and wait.  I think there is a lot of value in <g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">after </g><g class="gr_ gr_498 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="498" data-gr-id="498"><g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">hours</g> / weekend</g> work priced much higher provided you have the capacity.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:14
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

Until I started doing this all one way - fixed price - I found that I was forever making exceptions.
Now I tell the customer that it's a fixed price right up front.

The hardest people to change are your existing customers.

I think I'd start by pricing your regular work at a fixed price. Gradually work them into an annual agreement. If you know them well enough price in the annual upgrade as part of the plan.

For those who are against going on any type of plan, I create a pre-pay by credit card and have created a very high per incident rate. This applies to everything - quotes, helping with Sage subscriptions, etc. Typically I use this mostly for people who contact me off the web who "haven't needed a consultant in the past 20 years.... dropped all maintenance and support ... because they never need any maintenance or support .... and consultants are useless ".

Whatever you do - never go into a NEW customer meeting and give an hourly rate or estimated number of hours. It's fine to have a deadline to complete something but as soon as you give rate and hours and also a fixed price --- you've painted yourself into the not-to-exceed corner. All new customers whether they are already using Sage or buying it brand new must come on as a  fixed price customer and must have an annual agreement with you. These are the easiest to sell but don't ever give them an hourly rate or they will work you into a corner. Be prepared to walk away from any that balk. Let those who balk go and become a problem customer for someone else.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

Jeff brings up an important point: DO start with your best customers. 

When I first started this journey, I sweated bullets to come up with an agreement that I thought would be best for my customers. I did think about the nature of most of them, especially the most active ones. I researched what their support history was about and their project (including upgrades) history. I priced this NOT so they would definitely save money, but so that they could see this as a way to simplify their lives (regarding Sage and us), and potentially get more from the money they are already spending on their system. Differentiating between items that are covered and those that are not was an important effort (it's not as hard as it sounds). 

When I had that draft, I then presented, with lots of anxiety, to my 3 best customers. After it sunk in, they all loved it. Really. They could choose which level they wanted, and they no longer had to deal with the BS of monitoring/paying hours!

My experience with these good customers made it MUCH easier to approach the remaining ones. As long as you can clearly explain What's In It For Them, it is easy. (and they care less about the past $$ than you think.)

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
Austin TX
5124191444x112
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 13:39
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Maintenance Plans

The MASTERS have spoken!!!  All great advice!  Maybe John Shaver will chime in as well as he was presented the original MOTM session to the group.

Pick a couple friendly clients to begin this journey with.  Work out the kinks with them.  And you can use them as advocates that the resisters can talk talk to.

You may end up firing half of your clients.  But you will also be twice as profitable!  Remember, VALUE, not cost is your new mantra!

Good Luck.

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 12:02
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Maintenance Plans

I agree with everything Wayne said. We've not had an hourly billing event in 5 years. All fixed price.

For us, the 3-level proposal (good, better, best) was the key. I recall that we started annual agreements, "Knowledge Transfer Agreement", first. This is meant to, a) cover 80% of tech support calls, and b) encourage calling us whenever any question comes to them. The primary differentiators among the KTA levels are the response speed and amount of discount on a fixed-price "basic" upgrade. We also offer a monthly auto-payment option (with a 20% higher annual price) which several customers willingly pay.

In my experience, offering fixed-price without 3 options to choose from is doomed to fail. The beauty of 3-choices is that customers ALWAYS start thinking about which one to choose, NOT whether or not to buy it. It is magical.

If you'd like to discuss, feel free to call me.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
Austin TX
5124191444x112


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:19
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

For existing customers who don't want to spend any time helping to determine scope I tend to quote very high and have developed a minimum fee for specific types of work -- Crystal Reports might be one minimum, an upgrade might be another.

I have had GREAT luck with three pricing options and highly recommend providing three prices.

Mine usually go something like (sample numbers):

1. I do everything off-site and within x days - $ 500
2. I'll come on site for some meetings (1 or 2) and the rest off-site with completion within x days - $1,700
3. I'll do everything on-site and/or after-hours with completion ASAP - $4,000

Almost always they'll select option #2 and many times (perhaps over 50%) they take option #3. I don't sell a lot of option #1 but it's always their choice.


Also, make sure you put an expiration on every proposal. I've found many customers are all hot and heavy to get your quote then they go into a permanent meeting and can't be reached. I usually expire everything within 10 days. I never give them a work plan or any type of blueprint as to how they could do the work but I will give broad steps.


P.S. - Don't give away after hours work. We all tend to do this for no added cost because it's more convenient for <g class="gr_ gr_172 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Grammar only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="172" data-gr-id="172">US</g> but it's also lots more convenient for customers. For an <g class="gr_ gr_827 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-ins replaceWithoutSep" id="827" data-gr-id="827">upgrade</g> my option #1 might not include doing an overnight conversion which means their staff will sit and wait.  I think there is a lot of value in <g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">after </g><g class="gr_ gr_498 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="498" data-gr-id="498"><g class="gr_ gr_486 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="486" data-gr-id="486">hours</g> / weekend</g> work priced much higher provided you have the capacity.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 03-15-2019 11:14
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Maintenance Plans

Until I started doing this all one way - fixed price - I found that I was forever making exceptions.
Now I tell the customer that it's a fixed price right up front.

The hardest people to change are your existing customers.

I think I'd start by pricing your regular work at a fixed price. Gradually work them into an annual agreement. If you know them well enough price in the annual upgrade as part of the plan.

For those who are against going on any type of plan, I create a pre-pay by credit card and have created a very high per incident rate. This applies to everything - quotes, helping with Sage subscriptions, etc. Typically I use this mostly for people who contact me off the web who "haven't needed a consultant in the past 20 years.... dropped all maintenance and support ... because they never need any maintenance or support .... and consultants are useless ".

Whatever you do - never go into a NEW customer meeting and give an hourly rate or estimated number of hours. It's fine to have a deadline to complete something but as soon as you give rate and hours and also a fixed price --- you've painted yourself into the not-to-exceed corner. All new customers whether they are already using Sage or buying it brand new must come on as a  fixed price customer and must have an annual agreement with you. These are the easiest to sell but don't ever give them an hourly rate or they will work you into a corner. Be prepared to walk away from any that balk. Let those who balk go and become a problem customer for someone else.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990