General Consultant Discussion

Just so no one can claim to be surprised ... I spoke to some joker at Sage who is making direct sales for Sage CRM and turning them over to the internal PSG group. He said they are doing the same thing with Sage 300 - he was recently transferred in to Sage CRM because he was making good inroads with Sage 300. He didn't mention Sage 100 but ... I'm sure it's happening. Welcome to the new Sage channel!

They are not supposed to be touching any customers for resellers that have more than 50 customers.

I bet that doesn't apply to new and/or winback. I forget what the policy had been on expired customers but I think there was a certain amount of time before those customers came off a reseller's list.

As soon as that happens to me, we'll be introducing Acumatica to them.

And that, in a nutshell, is Sage's issue in North America. The ability to recommend competing solutions is something that most VARS didn't have 5 years ago. And this flexibility in solutions is only going to grow which marginalizes the Sage offering.

All the more reason that you would think Sage would try to be more channel friendly. @JohnHoyt - This guy specifically said they were calling on new leads - not assigned. We didn't get in to whether or not the 50 customers or more protection rule was still in place for cross-sell. I don't think it is for off-plan customers. Either way ... wouldn't Sage, as a channel based company, want to distribute leads to partners to pursue? Would you be happy finding out a 15 seat Sage 100 lead down the street was taken and sold and serviced by Sage directly? Seems to me that they are shooting themselves in the foot.

@PeterWolf I'd reserve a half hour slot at President's Circle with one of the executives to discuss this, but 1. who to choose and 2. would they do anything about it? May be best to take advantage of the free time and keep the blood pressure down.

I am wrangling a meeting with the new VP of Sales to discuss this. I would like to hear her thoughts on this. The challenge is that most new management level hires come in at ""Go"" and the partners have to try to move them around the board as best as we can.

@PeterWolf - Don't go directly to jail and not collect the $200 when you pass go.

I tend to think I won't have any control over Sage so best to plan for the new reality. How do we price engagements where we didn't sell the original deal? If we're only accepting customers who are on our recurring support plan - then Sage may be taking some of the low-profit work and as consultants, we have an opportunity. From my perspective, I see very (very) few EXISTING Sage 100 existing customers where I spend much more than an hour or two (aka free) on the initial meet and greet. Existing user consulting is with limited exceptions far more profitable.

Is Sage CRM still in the portfolio?

@PeterWolf I would involve Olivier Cuvillon olivier.cuvillon@sage.com, cell 727-365-2198. At least in his dealings with me, he was very supportive, he listened and he caused actions within Sage on various items.

Thanks Lloyd. I have a call with him early tomorrow!

UPDATE: I spoke with Olivier this morning. Honestly, I'm not sure what to think - I'm wondering if group members would please feel free to chime in with your perspectives. Here's what he said: This is not supposed to be the case. The PSG team is there to support the partners and not to sell direct. Sage (Olivier) wants to help all partners be successful. The success of the partners means the success of Sage. He will talk with Tiffany (who runs the group) to make sure everything is in alignment. Tiffany is his direct report. Here's my initial thought: How could Tiffany and her direct report (the guy I spoke with recently who proudly proclaimed they are selling direct and using PSG to service) be so diametrically deviating from what Olivier is saying is the strategy? Is she running rogue? Or is it a simple matter of signals getting crossed? I've had several conversations with her over the last 7 months and the message has been consistent: Sage is building up a direct sales team and services will be done by our PSG team. Here's my second thought: Is Olivier being 100% truthful? Or will my conversation with him simply prompt Tiffany to keep quiet about direct sales? After all, how will the channel find out if Sage keeps it quiet? Thoughts?

I have had the sense in the past several months that reps like Olivier are not being told the hold truth.

Olivier = Director of Sales. He's not a rep

My sense is that one hand doesn't have a good feel for what the other is doing, and if you're able to scare up new name leads, Sage is willing to look the other way. Remember their channel is moving pretty fast away from the days when they were worshipping Sage. And Sage knows this so don't expect that they're going to show their entire business strategy to us. In many ways we are now competing with Sage more than ever -- especially as partners take on competing product lines.

Chicken and egg here. I think Sage has gone down a road that caused partners to respond by moving away. So the solution might not be for Sage to go further down that road away from the partners. The distance will continue to grow.

I brought up several issues to Olivier where he sounded very surprised. I heard from our rep that when Olivier fired off several emails, that internally people rushed to respond and provide him/us with answers. Olivier stressed that he is 100% invested in the channel and he told me that without the channel there was no way for his people to achieve the numbers that they have to hit. On the other hand, Sage took Debbie Hill and are moving her to head up PSG and away from her sales engineering support role.

The success of the partners means the success of Sage."" I don't doubt everyone at Sage has been told that, and most probably believe it. Unfortunately there are salespeople that are putting the sale above everything else. The other big problem is lack of clear communication even within the same departments. I can get three different answers when I ask three people. Between divisions there is zero communication. My mid-market salespeople freely admit they have no idea what goes on at SPS.

Interesting insights @LloydSmith - thanks for sharing that. @JohnHoyt - I agree and I'm starting to see that too. The problem with their rapid pace of change is that clear lines of communication start to break down - internally and externally (partners and prospects / customers).

I've been in more than a few meetings with Sage people. Nothing above seems different than what I've heard them say - including the enthusiasm and surprise at hearing of the activities. Oh there is one different thing. It's all new people saying the same thing.

At Sage Summit they sold directly to a prospect that was coming off of Business Works, so they are definitely selling direct.

Sage already has a great PSG. It's called the partner channel. I know that was too easy, but Sage could make everyone happy(er) if when they do sell direct, they call on a network of partners who have agreed to take on those projects. The big issue with that is that proper discovery has probably not been done.

Sage does not view the channel as a customer. We are their largest revenue source and are still the red headed step child.

I have worked with Sage on three different engagements to help the PSG team assigned to a project. In all three cases the client paid a lot more money than if we had done the project from the start and only one of these companies are still using Sage software. Many of the Sage PSG people I have worked with before haven't worked for a reseller before or in public accounting and I find their opinion on the software configuration to be so myopic and they lead the client down the wrong path. But again, this has only been within the Sage 300 world.