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  • 1.  InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-19-2023 20:16
    I have a customer who is looking to "go paperless"

    They think Altec will be too expensive/complex for their needs.

    They are contemplating InstaDocs from DSD. Ideally, they'd like to have their Job  No. ( aka Sales Order Number ) be the field that ties together all the other documents - purchase orders, invoices, etc.

    They would like to, for example, look for Job # 5566 and see the Sales Order, Invoice, any related purchase orders, and Return Authorizations.

    A couple of questions:

    a. Have you done anything similar for a customer - and, if so, how has it worked? 
    b. Is relying on people to manually "tag" documents just asking for trouble? As soon as someone doesn't tag a related document, it seems as if this paperless trail could be broken
    c. Is there a realistic limit on the number of tags that can be created? If the customer is generating 500 orders a month, that's 6,000 a year and after 5 years, suddenly there are 30k tags - does that present a problem? 

    Is this customer better advised to spend the money on something like Altec? 

    I understand the cost concerns. My concern is also complexity of upgrade with Altec which is more complicated to upgrade that InstaDocs.

    Feedback?



    ​​

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    Wayne Schulz
    wayne@s-consult.com
    Schulz Consulting
    (860) 516-8990
    Moodus, CT
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  • 2.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 09:35
    I've *never* seen a system work that relies on users to voluntarily populate a field. This is over 25 years of consulting and using both CRM and ERP systems,

    The only way this possibly works is to automatically populate required field. It can be making it a required field so that nothing can be done unless the field is populated. But then that requirement either gets in the way during "edge cases" or doesn't activate in some uses of the forms or views used in the process. It might also be done via custom coding, but even that has the same problems; it's also generally not maintainable. 

    Wouldn't it be better to use a data field that already goes across all the documents, like JobNo? (I'm thinking of Ops Mgt here.) If this customer is trying to build a "poor man's" JobOps/Ops Mgt, I think they're doomed to fail unless they are very small.

    Altec might be complicated to setup, but is it complicated to use once properly configured? No more so than other elements of business software. It's just different.

    When something is deemed "too expensive" I also step back to the Value Evaluation step. What financial benefits do they think will occur if they do this? This helps eliminate those "project dreams" that merely pet peeves by the owner or his "brilliant" child. 

    This is a corollary of my evaluation criteria for a "great product idea." If I can't find anybody else doing it, there are only two explanations:
    1. It really is great, and I'm brilliant to think of it,
    or
    2. It's been tried and doesn't work.

    For me, it's almost always Door #2. I like to think I'm a smart guy ... but I'm not that smart. Same with this scheme to use a product in a use case it's not designed for.​

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    Jerry Norman
    Smartbridge Partners
    (512) 653-7498
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  • 3.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 09:57
    Jerry,

    I have a similar thought process here.

    The more I look at InstaDocs, the more it seems like a great idea for storing casual documents - product manuals and warranty agreements. Where I think it falls down for the case of a full paper replacement ( paperless ) system  is in the need for users to populate tags.

    There also appears to be a weakness in the primary UI for searching saved documents doesn't allow for limiting the search by date created, and does not perform any OCR, or searches WITHIN the documents.

    It's all about tags, and my opinion on tags seems to mirror yours - they are great until they aren't.  Some aspects of InstaDocs seem to support some auto-tagging. My guess is that there will be enough extra areas that require manual tags that the process would quickly become cumbersome.

    Also, InstaDocs doesn't have a "one place" to view a group of documents related to a particular order -- which in many cases includes email and fax conversations.

    With Altec - which is admittedly much more costly - they can do OCR, and from the Sage consulting side, we could populate a UDF for " Job Number " ( aka Sales Order ) on forms that don't have a Job/Order field

    For example, I can imagine if the goal is to look at the history of an order from start to finish that management realistically wants to click one button to view the info and not remember a series of searches that may bring up related documents.

    Altec is more costly and requires more labor to set up ( on a 2019 sale, 1/2 of the selling price was Altec professional services). However, if your goal is to go 100% paperless, I also believe you need to have very little reliance on staff to do anything, such as manually applying tags to documents.

    Thanks for the feedback!






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    Wayne Schulz
    wayne@s-consult.com
    Schulz Consulting
    (860) 516-8990
    Moodus, CT
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  • 4.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 10:43
    One more thought. I can't shake the feeling that this request for "unified" documents comes from a desire to address a deeper problem. In a modern system, questions regarding project performance are answered through dashboard drilldowns or reports. They might be trying to band-aid over a system that just doesn't meet the company's needs as it's grown to 500+ orders monthly.  

    If so, even using Altec is doomed to fail.

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    Jerry Norman
    Smartbridge Partners
    (512) 653-7498
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  • 5.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 11:00
    I'm guessing their processes are heavily tied to a paper trail, which is inefficient in a WFH world.  Should that be the case, it's a consulting opportunity for someone to do a holistic review of their business processes.  Hoping to find a magical fix via out-of-the-box software A or B is unlikely a winning strategy, no matter the cost.

    Often these things come to us in the form of "technical question", when the root is really trying to solve a "business problem".  Narrow the focus to that and you'll have more productive conversations.

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    Kevin Moyes
    Technical Systems Analyst
    Munjal White Consulting Co.
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  • 6.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 12:39
    Does anyone have other paperless/document management solutions that customers have implemented which are not Altec or InstaDocs?

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    Wayne Schulz
    wayne@s-consult.com
    Schulz Consulting
    (860) 516-8990
    Moodus, CT
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  • 7.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-20-2023 12:40
    A long time ago we had one implemented for a client - let me try to remember the name


    EZCM by ACOM Solutions


    Thank you,
    Douglas Luchansky (from my phone)

    ACI Consulting
    douglas@ACIconsulting.com
    O 714.282.0378
    D 714.694.4194




  • 8.  RE: InstaDocs as a full paperless document system

    Posted 01-21-2023 11:02
    Edited by Todd Martin 01-21-2023 11:02
    I have a customer looking at https://www.infodynamics.com. INTACT Is the product name I think. The price is right for the solution to be adopted by more customers. They appear to be very competitive when comparing functionality with Altec. Not sure yet if they can deliver what they say they can do. But they made sure to show what my customer needed in the demo to make sure it would work as they needed it to. Sales guy is very responsive. No idea about support or implementation since I do not have a customer using them yet.

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    Todd Martin
    MBA Business Software
    https://www.mbabsi.com
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