Sage News and Discussion

I'm really curious...

Would be curious to see what impact the current announcements had on the above answers. I know for me it just instilled more of a sense of urgency but I think I would be looking to diversify even without the announcements and changes.

Feeling in a @PeterWolf mood When somebody #@#!s you up the @#!, how can you be any kind of partner with them long term? I recognize you need to pay the bills and feed the family, but if you aren't putting plans into place to tell Pascal that the French are a bunch of p$#@%#s, than you have no b$@%s. (i put in those symbols)

That's the problem, isn't it? These guys in charge right now are getting a paycheck depending on how much they make. Most of us are trying to feed our families. It's like they don't understand basic human needs. I will do what I need to in order to take care of my familiy. If Sage doesn't provide those opportunities, they could have the best products in the world and still fail. Unfortunately for them, they are far from having the best products in the world.

Hence, they will FAIL. The only hope they have for their brand is X3 in new upper end deals. Beyond that, screw them. Honestly, SAP B1 is not bad at all and is alot sexier than MAS. They are moving the entire database to HANA which is going to generate alot of buzz next year. What buzz will there be around MAS90? Do crickets make a buzzing sound?

You realize you can't likely add another vendor and still expect to make your 90%/1 deal per quarter quota. Like me, your sales will get too spread out. Best you can do is sell a new solution exclusively and keep the mas clients for just existing services only. (Pretty much what I do now). I honestly can't remember the last time that except for price (bad place to be anyway) MAS90/200 was a better fit than ANY of the other solutions we represent for a clients needs. And in many cases SAP is cheaper and with this $3k for 5 users deal, so is NAV.

Has anyone done the math comparing subscription to standard pricing to determine the cross-over point? If anyone wanted to provide me a base number for MAS 200 (which I think is what the subscription pricing is, correct?) and I will run some calculations and post the results.

For a 1-user system it seemed like it was about 4.5 years compared to the small business bundle of $6,000. $110*12 = $1,320. $1320 * 4.5 = $5940

???? what numbers are you using and what product are you looking at? Others were saying it's 2 years.

@PeterWolf - Distribution bundle is $2245 per user (plus 25% per year for Gold I assume, doesn't actually say on price sheet), subscription is $110/month. So they are about equal at the 3 year mark for Sage 100 users. CRM perpetual passes monthly about half way through year 3.

BTW, just confirmed with partner advocate at Sage - the practice of not including custom office until you hit 5 users of Sage 100 is being maintained.

It can vary, but based on Sage 100 Advanced 10 user, 5 user CRM distribution (with payrol and direct deposit) the purchase price is $28,815 with $7,204/yr M&S. If subscription is $125/mo/user, the crossover is about 4 yr 4 mo. Subscription also includes FAS and SMI, which would change these results. I excluded them as SMI might not be the best solution and I rarely sell FAS to the 10 user customer. I conclude the cross over is about 5 year. The dicussion to have with the client is how long they expect to be using the software.

If there crossover were 20 years, why would you sell it? Unless you plan on spending 5x on sales and marketing via ads, billboards, salespeople, telemarketing etc, you'll not likely meet the 1/quarter requirement and thus make very little on the sale. You might be client centric in your thinking, but you aren't doing clients any favors selling a scenario that puts you out of business.

Our full time jobs should be marketing and blogging as to why the Sage subscription model sucks. What are they going to do? Take the 0 leads and direct sales that you don't get away from you??

From my perspective, the pricing actually seems pretty damn good given the ranges that folks have replied with. Consider the importance of cash flow. From a pure econ 101 basis, cash liquidity allows you leverage and enables you to make additional strategic investments.

Most clients stick with ERP systems 10-15 years these days. With average crossovers at 3-4 years, its much cheaper leasing if they are that hard up for cash.

@WayneSchulz I finally accepted an invitation to an Intacct webinar shortly after the transformation webcast. So yes Sages anouncement had an impact. In marketing timing is everything and their 20th invite arrived at just the right time. I plan to look at a number of products over next six months.

@BobKohlmeyer I bet Intacct's webinar invitation acceptance rate has shot through the roof

That's funny. I sat in on one a couple weeks ago and spoke with Taylor shortly thereafter. Not sure I'd go this direction, but was a worthwhile review of the feature set.

We should probably spin up a new group specifically called 'Alternative solution review'. Where we post all our feedback on possible alternatives and how they compare to MAS90. I can already tell you relative to B1 and NAV. Epicor doesn't really compete in the same space for the most part unless you are somebody like Deb who does a lot of manufacturing From: do-not-reply@socialcast.com [mailto:do-not-reply@socialcast.com] On Behalf Of Mark Kotyla Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:43 AM To: Mark Chinsky Subject: Re: [90 Minds Consulting Group] I'm really curious...

Here's what Taylor emailed me about their requirements (I was looking to verify someone's statement about the costs -- not join Intacct): Our VAR partners need to have at least 8+ full time employees, a full time salesperson and multiple certified consultants. In addition there is a $7,500 annual fee as well as an agreed upon quota. 8 full time employees does not mean all Intacct employees just to be a size capable of marketing, selling and supporting Intacct. Most important requirement is experience in mid-market accounting software. It is impossible to be successful with a new product if you don't either get rid of an existing product (unlikely) or add additional people or move people from one product to the new product. You can't do that with less than 7-8 staff. Our Channel 3.0 philosophy says that there are a limited number of partners per territory so we simply can't sign partners up that likely will not be successful We do have webinars for CPA's who want to join our BPO (outsourcing) program no firm size requirements there.

The fly in the ointment according to people who've worked with Intacct is the last paragraph. I believe the CPA firm receives some type of compensation and in at least one story I heard the CPA firm derailed a partner sale though there's always two sides to these stories...

@MarkChinsky I think before you start talking products you should start talking business model. For example I believe the traditional break/fix and training model is a dying breed. That's where perhaps 80% or more of our revenues now are derived from (if we were honest). Ideally I think you'd want to fashion a future business model where it's difficult if not impossible for a customer to leave your company because you are providing something of high value that cannot be easily replaced (painful switching cost). The ERP providers already have this. Why start on a new journey unless we can craft something that is more ""bullet proof"" than our present model. Future business models in the Sage world (and unless we sell we're stuck being at least partly in this world): - Scripting - Reporting - BizNet - Integrations - Customizations - ""Invasive"" Add-ons (Job Ops, EDI)

There have been several posts on Intacct here. The gist of which have been Intacct doesn't protect the lead. Reseller comes in for the demo and the local CPA undercuts the price and gets the sale.

I think it has to be looked at as a holistic package. For example, Gary Harpst, founder of Solomon Software had an idea to open up a consultancy franchise where franchisee would offer full business consulting services (based on his great book, Six Disciplines http://www.amazon.com/Six-Disciplines-Excellence-Building-Businesses/dp/1933538813/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331226191&sr=8-2 Part of the consultancy was going to be offering a saas based ERP solution that mapped to the Six Disciplines methodology. It's since moved to a coaching business: http://www.sixdisciplines.com/getting-started/coaching-other-organizations.htm But the original idea was for VAR's to start up centers in exclusive territories and offer the business consulting and the SAAS solution as a total package with fixed monthly fees;. I think he was on to something, just too early and the market hadn't yet realized the problem with our current model. I think both need to be looked at together and I don't think MAS90 is ever going to get you there. MAS customers are just too cheap ass and there are too many cheap ass competitors. Plus MAS is just too old technology and not enough third party interest is there. Selling MAS today is like selling Blackberry. They put some lipstick on it, but there will never be an 'app' ecosystem.

@MarkChinsky In my opinion any new business model is likely to offer to new customers -- not our existing base of users who are for all intents locked into MAS90 because the switching costs are painful. You make a good point that the 90% / 1 new deal effectively makes partners adhere to Sage Select -- otherwise they are spread too thin to make enough sales in the Sage world to retain margin. We probably have at least two years before the 90% spreads across all Sage products. Perhaps it even happens sooner depending on annual earnings.

On the other hand if Sage makes the requirement so improbable to obtain, why even try? If you're getting $0 recurring revenue from Sage, why not focus your new sales efforts on a solution with a better longterm growth outlook? They need to keep the bar realistic to keep in the Sage game.

Peter, regarding your comment about Sage no understanding basic human needs. I'm certainly not defending Sage but the bottom line is they don't care about our need to feed our families. And why should they? I think the number one criteria for a new business model is one that doesn't rely on any software publisher for its existence. As long as the business depends on the whims and fancies of a software publisher that business will continue to get screwed.