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If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

  • 1.  If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:04
    If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?  Planning next upgrade to Version 2020 in about a year (skipping version 2019).  TIA!

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Consulting Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
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  • 2.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:06
    It might help if you gave some hints at business requirements.  :-)

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    Kevin Moyes
    Technical Systems Analyst
    Munjal White Consulting Co.
    Toronto ON
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  • 3.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:14
    Oops, thank you Kevin!  Looking for a manufacturing solution.

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
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  • 4.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:15
    So Bill of Materials alone doesn't fill the need? What exactly, would they need? Any reason they don't want to go with PM Make to Stock?

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    Therese Logeais
    Technology Integrators
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  • 5.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:23
    Every Sales Order results in an individual, unique BOM and, thus, is make to order.  They utilize BOM's now, yet are struggling with maintaining.

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
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  • 6.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:26
    Are they currently using JobOps? Why don't they want to stay with that??

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    Therese Logeais
    Technology Integrators
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  • 7.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:29
    No, only using BOM's right now.  We recommended JobOps, full demo, sales cycle, etc., some loved it.  Then someone on their team found a negative review (from who knows when) and they have shied away.  So, we're looking for another option.

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:52
    Unless they want to go to an entirely new ERP, I'd focus on PM - Make to Order ONE MORE TIME!!! @John Hoyt

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    Therese Logeais
    Technology Integrators
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  • 9.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 16:53
    Thank you Therese!

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
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  • 10.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 17:00
    With due respect, Michelle, this behavior sounds like you aren't connected to the real decision maker here. You have other, positive reviews and probably a testimonial or two, and yet the customer let somebody blow it up over one bad Yelp? Somebody inside is not cooperating ...

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    Jerry Norman
    Smartbridge Partners
    Austin TX
    5124191444x112
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  • 11.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 17:10
    Agree Jerry, and our fabulous sales team is on it!  Just wanted to check for hidden treasure ;)

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    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 18:13
    ​Are there bad reviews on JobOps? Yes, but just as with anything else that is reviewed, not limited to software, what were the variables that may be responsible? NetSuite has mixed reviews. I know a former Sage user and a former Sage support employee and consultant who currently work for companies using NetSuite, and they made negative comments to me about the software. When I drilled down into the issues, I said I don't know NetSuite and don't need to, because you either have management, user or consultant problems. I doubt it is the software. They agreed with me after thinking about it for a minute.

    If the customer likes Sage 100 for financial and distribution functions, then they need to accept that they have 4 options to handle their "manufacturing"  - an external package or custom solution (like MS Access or Excel - very common out there), BOM, PM (make to stock) or PM Make to Order. After years of struggling with WO, consultants and users alike should be elated with the PM options. Both Sage and Scanco have made a huge effort to come up with solutions that save some of the good features WO had (and were needed in JobOps) and to provide the functionality of JobOps for both versions that takes the manufacturing function way beyond where they were with WO. From a pure software standpoint, these are very good solutions for a Sage 100 user. Nothing about automating manufacturing is easy, so the users must have some intelligence and be open to the way the software works. By the way, there are a few limitations, but the basics of both PM solutions are the same. For a MTO operation, they could use PM (MTS), but the items have to go through inventory. I'm not sure that's worth the savings, though.

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    John Hoyt
    john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
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  • 13.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 18:35
    Thank you very much John! 

    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Consulting Manager
    CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772


    ------Original Message------

    ​Are there bad reviews on JobOps? Yes, but just as with anything else that is reviewed, not limited to software, what were the variables that may be responsible? NetSuite has mixed reviews. I know a former Sage user and a former Sage support employee and consultant who currently work for companies using NetSuite, and they made negative comments to me about the software. When I drilled down into the issues, I said I don't know NetSuite and don't need to, because you either have management, user or consultant problems. I doubt it is the software. They agreed with me after thinking about it for a minute.

    If the customer likes Sage 100 for financial and distribution functions, then they need to accept that they have 4 options to handle their "manufacturing"  - an external package or custom solution (like MS Access or Excel - very common out there), BOM, PM (make to stock) or PM Make to Order. After years of struggling with WO, consultants and users alike should be elated with the PM options. Both Sage and Scanco have made a huge effort to come up with solutions that save some of the good features WO had (and were needed in JobOps) and to provide the functionality of JobOps for both versions that takes the manufacturing function way beyond where they were with WO. From a pure software standpoint, these are very good solutions for a Sage 100 user. Nothing about automating manufacturing is easy, so the users must have some intelligence and be open to the way the software works. By the way, there are a few limitations, but the basics of both PM solutions are the same. For a MTO operation, they could use PM (MTS), but the items have to go through inventory. I'm not sure that's worth the savings, though.

    ------------------------------
    John Hoyt
    john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
    ------------------------------


  • 14.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-09-2019 22:40
    With all due respect to both users and ISVS, Job Ops has had a somewhat sordid past. It tends to be upgraded very slowly, requires a specific consulting <g class="gr_ gr_534 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del" id="534" data-gr-id="534">skillset</g>, has difficult integration due to non-standard programming and the present plans appear as if they <g class="gr_ gr_1028 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Style multiReplace" id="1028" data-gr-id="1028">will  continue</g> multi-bin battles (largely Sage's fault <g class="gr_ gr_309 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling ins-del multiReplace" id="309" data-gr-id="309">imo</g>).

    Some of this is Job Ops, some of this is consultants jumping in over their head, some of this is end users buying "more horsepower" than they can manage.

    However, I do think there's a risk here because ethically once you start getting into something more complex manufacturing wise AND if the customer is not SUPER tied into Sage 100 distribution I think you would need to raise the option of an Epicor type manufacturing specific system.

    If you don't do that then you need to recognize that you have your reseller hat on and not your consulting hat.

    PS - ALL of the future money for us is in consulting

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    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
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  • 15.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 08:54
    You could check with IIG.  They have been a Master Developer since way back and play in this space.

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    alan niergarth
    Velosio LLC
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  • 16.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 09:04
    Thank you @Jerry Norman, @Wayne Schulz and @alan niergarth​​​   Your insight is greatly appreciated!

    ------------------------------
    Michelle Taylor
    ERP Team Manager, CS3 Technology
    918-388-9772
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 09:22
    Imho although the developers of JobOps have gone through a roller coaster our experiences with JObOps have all been positive. Every package has had its ‘endearing’ qualities, but JobOps gets the job done well

    ---------------------------------
    Gary Feldman
    President
    I-Business Network, LLC
    Marietta GA
    6786270646 x224
    http://www.i-bn.com/
    ---------------------------------





  • 18.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 09:32
    I don't know JobOps software, however, I plan on learning the new PM addition to Sage 100.  I know Scanco and Sage have worked hard.  We all work hard, well at least most of us.  I know many of you believe the software does a great job.  I hope so, because Sage 100 users don't have another choice other than to swithch ERP systems.

    My concern is not with the features of the software.  My concern is the support.  The support is as important or more important than the features.  The customer needs to have confidence that if something goes awry there is a competent person that can quickly step in and solve the issue, particularly in emergencies.  If I have a 600 line order sitting on the dock and nothing is shipping because your software screwed up I better be able to get someone to remote in and troubleshoot the issue.  Dont make me fill out a web form and pray someone will call me back within 48 hours, and don't make me wait on hold for an hour.  I don't give a rat's arm if you are the Sage platinum reseller of the century.,

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    Doug Higgs
    Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 10:36
    @Doug Higgs - your point about support for mission-critical applications is an important consideration. However, I think you are looking in the wrong direction for its solution. Our Brave New World reality is that the *partner* must supply that support, at least in the Sage 100 space.

    I am encouraged by Sage's push to increase functionality. And Scanco's acquisition of JobOps was a positive development for that product. But I simply do not see how funds for your support example will be there. The Sage 100 installed base with challenging problems isn't large enough, and its code base is too convoluted. JobOps is in the same pickle. 

    In an earlier post on this thread, @Wayne Schulz claimed that the future of partner revenue is all services. He is correct. if you venture into JobOps the partner needs to expect to handle all of the front-line support and then interface to Scanco for the harder stuff on the customer's behalf. Your annual agreement with your customer must include this. 

    That is a huge opportunity for partners.

    If the customer doesn't want to do this, then you must tell the customer that switching to Acumatica or some other newer solution is what he needs to meet his support expectations. 

    JobOps is a very solid package today. When (if) they ever finish the enhancements they promised then it will be more solid. But we must remember that few new prospects today will buy Sage 100 for JobOps. (This is whole '<g class="gr_ gr_1630 gr-alert gr_spell gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim ContextualSpelling" id="1630" data-gr-id="1630">nuther</g> discussion.) We have a responsibility to keep the implications of that in mind for our current customers.

    ------------------------------
    Jerry Norman
    Smartbridge Partners
    Austin TX
    5124191444x112
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 10:55
    @Jerry Norman   I understand our role is a consulting role.  I see myself as a consultant and not as someone selling software.  This concept is not new to me. I have thought this way for my whole career.  This is exactly why it pains me to be pressured to pressure my customer to change to subscription when, in some cases, they (and I) don't see the benefit.   My philosophy has always been to keep the customer's best interest in mind even if it means directing them to a product I am not affiliated with.  I believe, in the long term, that approach builds trust and ultimately creates customer loyalty.

    As for Scanco and other Sage strap-ons, I expect to, at some point in the near future, to have a very good understanding of the features and to be able to provide a basic level of tech support.  As with all products, including the Sage 100 base product, we need the developer to have our back... particularly in emergencies.  I stick by what I said in my previous post.  The developer needs to have the bandwidth to support the product.

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    Doug Higgs
    Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 11:06
    @Doug Higgs - My main point about vendor support is that we should be looking to them to support our customer-direct support activities. It solidifies the customer's view of us as the expert and ultimately makes life easier for the customer.

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    Jerry Norman
    Smartbridge Partners
    Austin TX
    5124191444x112
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  • 22.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 11:10
    @Jerry Norman  I understand, and I agree 100%. ​

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    Doug Higgs
    Assistant Technical Support / Building Maintenance Specialist
    Midwest Commerce Solutions, Inc
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  • 23.  RE: If a Customer doesn't go with JobOps, what other options are available for Sage 100 sans Work Order?

    Posted 04-10-2019 10:49
    And speaking of learning the new PM, has anyone heard any specifics regarding the planned two days of training in Atlanta next month?  I really don't want to stay two extra days if they aren't being held.  Need to make the flight reservations.

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    Jeff Schwenk
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------