General Consultant Discussion

Have you come up with any particular way to respond to customer requests that they want to load CRM or SI and ""play around with it""? For the most part I'm either pricing this out in the upgrade or not installing. What has occurred is after the upgrade is done the IT staff email and say the owner wants to take a look. In my view this is an invitation to start a free consulting engagement which I'd like to avoid if at all possible. I do believe a good deal of the issue is in how these products are really beefy separate installs despite Sage's portrayal of them as all one big happy family of apps. I'm reluctant to offer even a nominal setup for free because all of my experience is that once you touch the app you then own the responsibility to debug and get it working. Anyone else handle these requests a different way ? I suspect that I may see them more frequently.

Wayne, I think this is similar to many of the other requests we all get every day. I believe the key is in what you include and exclude in your scope of work and make clear to the client. If they want the software installed, you quote installation and define in writing what constitutes a 'successful' installation (and that does not include integration with the live company database). If they want training, you quote training. If they just want to play with the software, so be it. If they want a test environment integrated with a test copy of the production database, then they are asking for a conference room pilot and you quote that. Again, I think this starts with managing expectations and being clear on what is included and what is not. We can't change the way we bill by implementing fixed fees without also changing the way we work and deliver services.

I second Shawn's thoughts, and a plug for the 3-option approach. Make the lowest option just installation and a set of steps designed to prove that it is FAD when you turn it over to them. The the next two options increasingly add training, coaching, etc. By explicitly detailing what IS included in the upper 2 options, you clearly define what is NOT present in the basic option. Be sure to add a clause defining how they can upgrade to a higher option after they bought a lower one. Should be the difference in price +20% or more.

While I appreciate the thought that it is possible to properly quote ""just load it' - my experience in actually doing these things is that it's not possible. If the customer is unable to achieve their desired outcome - despite mistakenly choosing a lower level of service - they either won't pay, ask for their money back or leave you and bad mouth your service.

Wayne, two things: 1) if you don't provide the service, they may leave and bad mouth you for a lack of service. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. 2) Be sure to explain to the customer, verbally and in the SOW, that the install and play option places a heavy burden on the client to read user guides, exercise self learning, and make iterative testing passes to best understand the solution. This is especially true with a CRM since it addresses multiple business processes within the organization and heavily relies on the company to have those business processes well defined (in writing preferably) in order to successfully implement.

I totally agree. Unfortunately these add-ons are marketed as if they're something the customer can setup and learn themselves and the local VAR becomes the expected free resource. It's all in clearly defining scope.

I've said before that I think you have an unusual mix of customers compared to ours. So I am not downplaying your concern. But Shawn's (1) certainly gets in the way. A basic installation, which if they are on 2013 and meet the rest of the system requirements is not a terrible experience. If it's structured so quite clearly you aren't responsible for anything besides making it work as Sage says it's supposed to, then I don't see how a customer who otherwise wants to stay with you will make this an reason to leave. However, I wouldn't just turn on CRM and let them play with it. It just never comes out well as a starting point. I suspect that IT wants to play with it, and no real user is intending to. If that's the case, then this definitely will not go anywhere. It's important that your customer knows this is not just ""another module"" like say, Bank Rec, to just turn on. Sage doesn't like to say this, but Sage CRM is a stand alone product that is linked to Sage 100. Consider this request as a cry for help from the sales & mktg part of the customer, and use it to organize some simple discovery as to what they want out of it. Maybe involve @PeterWolf in that initial discussion.

I shudder when partners say they have a customer that wants to ""play around with the free user."" There is no commitment, there is no understanding - on their side or ours, and there is no plan to explore (fail to plan, plan to fail). Our goal is not to sell them CRM but to help them make sure they are ready for it and have a need for it. When we are on the outside looking-in, we cannot do that. It's best to walk through the line of thinking with the customer and do a proper sales process (discovery call -> demo -> solution presentation) if they are serious about it. If they still insist on the play around approach, I will point them to the Cloud. After 30 days, when their trial runs out and inevitably they have yet to log in, I will re-open discussions about going down a proper evaluation path. Yes, Shawn is correct that some customers will get miffed but ... those are typically not going to be successful customers.

We are saying the same thing. We don't have that different a customer base. My core belief is once you touch the keyboard - in the customers mind you own any resulting problem. So therefore it is no long possible to ""be a nice guy"" and login and ""just help us get the basic setup"" unless there's an agreement in advance. I've been through multiple instances where 7 hours later I'm on the phone with Sage support and the customer trying to get the ""quick"" setup running. And it is all a freebie.

Straight from my inbox moments ago: Thanks Wayne, The MAS Intelligence has been installed. Now onto the CRM option. When I fire up my local version of MAS 100 version 2013 I see that the Customer Relationship Management module is listed and can be opened. I did not find any place to enter the customer number and registration key you provided. If you can instruct me where to enter this information I would appreciate that. If you can provide some tips for configuring CRM Server Options as I have entered every combination of server names and credentials that I can think of yet I still cannot get this page configured. Thank you,

PS - I love the idea of sending customers to the cloud for CRM review. I think Sage has made a big mistake not figuring out a way to run the cloud version of Sage CRM with Sage 100. Big mistake.

The Sage CRM freebie approach is good but the messaging is poor. It's not a quick, turn the key, start the solution dealio.

It's coming soon Wayne. Probably at Summit. Next challenge will be: everyone and their brother will go back to thinking that getting customers up and running with CRM is just a simple case of turning on the CRM Cloud and pointing it to their ERP system. It will be a problem. I guarantee it.

Wayne, the part I don't see is customers getting mad at us for not doing what we clearly said we would not do. Our KTA clearly specs what modules we are supporting -- only those already set up. Our upgrades are very clear about what new functionality we will install, and our base option is only upgrading current modules. So, an email request like you got would be followed up by a frank discussion along the lines of what Peter says. Your ""hands touch the keyboard rule"" is absolutely true. But so far we've been pretty good about have an an upfront agreement about what a new case of this looks like with the customer. For me, we've found it easier to get the meaning of our limitations through to a customer with the 3-option approach. We don't disagree there at all. Peter, in yesterday's CRM Cross-sell webinar they answered a question about cloud integration to Sage 100 as ""next year."" I might be wrong but it was the sort of answer they give when it will be released late in ""next year"" and not really working for another 6 months. They don't say it, but I think the real bottleneck is Irvine finishing the sData contract on Sage 100, not on Ireland's side.

I try where possible to go with the 'proof of concept' scenario. Tell them installing something this complex etc on their production servers adds unnecessary complexity and possible 'leftovers' if they decide not to go with it. In addition the usual issues of not knowing how to use the software an many of the setups not being complete with a 'raw install' will limit functionality and create frustration and potentially a negative opinion that is unwarranted Instead offer to come on site (or via gotomeeting) with you laptop with it fully installed. Then you'll go through 'day in the life' workflows with them using samples of their actual data. They make no commitment to buy any software and the time spent doing this concept is pretty much time that would have to be spent during an actual implementation. If they like it and move forward, you have already mutually come up with many of the implementation requirements. If they don't, they have spared themselves the potential of spending alot of money on something that they don't end up using. Of course the proof of concept is a fully billable engagement. With companies I don't have a strong relationship with and if its a large prospect, sometimes I'll offer to credit 50% of the time back to the actual project if they move forward