General Consultant Discussion

I have another train wreck in the works - customer just moved someone into a purchasing position and all I can see is bankruptcy in their future (not from stealing, from massive incompetence).  Not that I'm going to say anything, but have any of you ever spoken to a client about one of their employees being a lost cause when it comes to what they are supposed to be doing in Sage?  This doesn't cover button pushers who freak when something goes wrong - this is true incompetence.

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Beth Bowers
(269) 358-0989
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I have been there.

And if the new incompetent employee has a relationship with a Sage VAR - there's a decent chance you'll be replaced.

I'm in the midst of something similar, and sometimes, these are just no-win situations. The best thing to do is document as much as possible in writing.

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Wayne Schulz
wayne@s-consult.com
Schulz Consulting
(860) 516-8990
Moodus, CT
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I didn't realize my accounting/HR manager from hell had a sibling.  I would love to talk to management about her as well but the owner doesn't want to switch her out (or change in any shape or form) and the 80+ Yr president continues to draw a salary when he should have retired five years ago,.....  Should we write an advice columnist in a national paper?

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Jeff Schwenk
Bottomline Software, Inc.
(540) 221-4444
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Thanks, @Jeff Schwenk and @Wayne Schulz - at least I'm not alone.

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Beth Bowers
(269) 358-0989
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 13:20
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

I didn't realize my accounting/HR manager from hell had a sibling.  I would love to talk to management about her as well but the owner doesn't want to switch her out (or change in any shape or form) and the 80+ Yr president continues to draw a salary when he should have retired five years ago,.....  Should we write an advice columnist in a national paper?

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Jeff Schwenk
Bottomline Software, Inc.
(540) 221-4444
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Beth, this could be a good roundtable topic for MOTM2024. I have nothing helpful to share other than that I have been able to have gentle conversations with the decision-maker if I have a firm relationship and trust built over years. If not, like Wayne said, documenting anything that you can, may come in handy someday. And bite your tongue until "that day" comes. It's really frustrating how often this happens. 

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Karen O'Lane
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
kolane@asifocus.com
90 Minds Secretary
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Oh Yes, Beth Bowers!  One of my special favorites was when a business owner called me on the carpet for taking so long with the implementation of core accounting, and I had to tell him that his bookkeeper had no experience in accounting, so I was trying to teach her accounting as well as the software.  He called her into the office right then and there and said "You're fired!  Sue says you don't know what you're doing."  It was a special day...

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Sue Bennett
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.
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Wow @Sue Bennett !

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Brett Zimmerman
Net at Work
Greater Boston Area
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 14:39
From: Sue Bennett
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Oh Yes, Beth Bowers!  One of my special favorites was when a business owner called me on the carpet for taking so long with the implementation of core accounting, and I had to tell him that his bookkeeper had no experience in accounting, so I was trying to teach her accounting as well as the software.  He called her into the office right then and there and said "You're fired!  Sue says you don't know what you're doing."  It was a special day...

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Sue Bennett
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.
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Oh, to have @Sue Bennett 's God-like power.

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Karen O'Lane
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
kolane@asifocus.com
90 Minds Secretary
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 15:35
From: Brett Zimmerman
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Wow @Sue Bennett !

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Brett Zimmerman
Net at Work
Greater Boston Area
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 14:39
From: Sue Bennett
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Oh Yes, Beth Bowers!  One of my special favorites was when a business owner called me on the carpet for taking so long with the implementation of core accounting, and I had to tell him that his bookkeeper had no experience in accounting, so I was trying to teach her accounting as well as the software.  He called her into the office right then and there and said "You're fired!  Sue says you don't know what you're doing."  It was a special day...

------------------------------
Sue Bennett
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.

Oh, to have @Sue Bennett 's God-like power.

------------------------------
Karen O'Lane
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
kolane@asifocus.com
90 Minds Secretary
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 15:35
From: Brett Zimmerman
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Wow @Sue Bennett !

------------------------------
Brett Zimmerman
Net at Work
Greater Boston Area
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 14:39
From: Sue Bennett
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Oh Yes, Beth Bowers!  One of my special favorites was when a business owner called me on the carpet for taking so long with the implementation of core accounting, and I had to tell him that his bookkeeper had no experience in accounting, so I was trying to teach her accounting as well as the software.  He called her into the office right then and there and said "You're fired!  Sue says you don't know what you're doing."  It was a special day...

------------------------------
Sue Bennett
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.

Yikes!

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Beth Bowers
(269) 358-0989
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-10-2023 14:39
From: Sue Bennett
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

Oh Yes, Beth Bowers!  One of my special favorites was when a business owner called me on the carpet for taking so long with the implementation of core accounting, and I had to tell him that his bookkeeper had no experience in accounting, so I was trying to teach her accounting as well as the software.  He called her into the office right then and there and said "You're fired!  Sue says you don't know what you're doing."  It was a special day...

------------------------------
Sue Bennett
Jack of All Trades, Master of 1
Bennett/Porter & Associates, Inc.
------------------------------

Have you thought of offering some training - or is it beyond that? I like it when they think of it first - "Jane is new to this position and we think it would be helpful to have you do some basic training." But that doesn't always happen. Will they be calling you to dig this person out of the hole they've dug?

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Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
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I, too, have suffered from a customer employee suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. You're doomed if the immediate supervisor learns he/she is incompetent. In my experience, the supervisor doesn't know enough about the role to judge and for perfectly human reasons, chooses to trust the employee over the outsider. (This is why IT is especially susceptible to this.) 

It seems to me that automation and reporting/data visualization might help in ways not possible earlier. A set of packages of such reporting sold to management as "a way to prevent problems I've seen with other customers" could help expose it. The company doesn't report these metrics now (which is why this person got this far), so it might be impossible to interest them. If you have a relationship with their CPA, you might be able to set a hint about reports they can run in this. 

If you can figure out how to keep your fingerprints off this stuff you might become a hero. If you're so inclined, maybe pray to the saint of lost causes ...  

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Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
(512) 653-7498
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We've done scripts to add control (eg. blocking changes to customer credit limit for certain users).  Locking down Role permissions can help limit the damage from incompetence, but that strategy doesn't work in all cases for sure.

Absolutely document everything... for the inevitable "not my fault" conversation.  I've been asked to do stupid things, sent a clear "you want me to do X, which is not recommended for reasons A, B and C.  If you wish proceed with X against my advice, please confirm by replying to this email", and sometimes had the user change their mind... simply by asking them to confirm, in writing, that they are asking for something blatantly wrong.

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Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-11-2023 10:29
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: End users clearly out of their depth

I, too, have suffered from a customer employee suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. You're doomed if the immediate supervisor learns he/she is incompetent. In my experience, the supervisor doesn't know enough about the role to judge and for perfectly human reasons, chooses to trust the employee over the outsider. (This is why IT is especially susceptible to this.) 

It seems to me that automation and reporting/data visualization might help in ways not possible earlier. A set of packages of such reporting sold to management as "a way to prevent problems I've seen with other customers" could help expose it. The company doesn't report these metrics now (which is why this person got this far), so it might be impossible to interest them. If you have a relationship with their CPA, you might be able to set a hint about reports they can run in this. 

If you can figure out how to keep your fingerprints off this stuff you might become a hero. If you're so inclined, maybe pray to the saint of lost causes ...  

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
Smartbridge Partners
(512) 653-7498
------------------------------