Sage News and Discussion

Driving Revenue Growth in FY13 conference call today ... notes here

Tom Miller announced President's Circle winners.

Congratulations Peter!

Wow, Brad's a great reader!

@PeterWolf Congratulations on top CRM sales! Guess you won't have to concentrate on that Spirit award now.

Brad Smith - heads up Customer Experience - formerly from Yahoo! speaking now - going to talk about all the different ways we (Sage and channel) contribute to the customer experience and get folks to come back again and again (loyalty).

(Did that previous slide mention ""hotels"" - am I on the wrong call?)

Avoid any mention of layoffs or other rumors by stressing the Customer Experience.

Wonder what the plane crash was supposed to do for us....take the stairway to heaven?

For people that want more info on ""Consumption Gap"" and ""Consumption Economics"", take a look here (it's a quick, decent read): http://www.amazon.com/Consumption-Economics-New-Rules-Tech/dp/0984213031/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1353348719&sr=1-1&keywords=consumption+economics

Calling Jimmy Page - copyright still valid?

This is going very fast. Hard to make fun of them.

way too fast to follow....

Even Joe agrees!! ""Good thing it's recorded!

Yep.

I'm wondering if @JeffSchwenk, @RobertWood and @WayneSchulz didn't get an invite to the presentation? I'm missing snarky comments...

I think Jeff's on vacation.

I'm glad it's recorded. Still no sound. Call 1-888.... and it's busy.

That's unfortunate John. If you want I can conference you in. What's the # you are at?

Most of this is not really relevant to the channel or customers. Sage needs to concentrate on the basics instead of throwing up these smoke screens.

@JohnHoyt - I think this is ""the basics"". I believe that Joe has structured the group to say ... let's get back to basics and build back up from there. That's my interpretation.

I missed the beginning of the call. But what I am hearing is a joke. SAP upgrade will be wonderful. Certification has reduced phone calls, because we are smarter?

I got the invitation. I'm onsite today.

rewared partners with multi-product certifications"" - Joe Langner. Funny - I'm thinking of dropping all but the minimum number of certified consultants as there is no point to keeping them. None that I can see anyway.

Perhaps they wouldn't be off plan if there was a Bronze plan?

@PeterWolf We should have a separate discussion on what we believe the basics to be. These topics imply that we the partners are not doing a good enough job with our customers.

Woohoo! Sage 100 is still up there with 300 and X3!

Note that there is no CRM leaf next to 100!!! But we have done a bad job in selling the shitty integration.

@JohnHoyt - I read this as Sage addressing their own failures and not necessarily saying the channel is at fault. I can see how it might be interpretted as condemnation of the channel as well.

But Sage 100 has more than either of the others!!

@GaryFeldman - The Sage 100 - Sage CRM integration issues are an extremely hot topic right now within Sage. We should expect something to move on this in the next four months. Not as fast as I would like but at least, it's happening.

Do we have a list of the BPAC members, if we want to contact them? Which of our members are also on BPAC?

Azamba, BlytheCo and DSD are on the BPAC. (Sorry if I missed anyone else.)

Peter, thanks for the offer. I tried a number of time in between other calls and finally got through at minute 34.

One big issue with what Sage wants us to do as partners translates to more time spent on their new initiatives. As an organization that does a lot of business consulting, this is difficult to do.

Has anyone seen this product scoring before?

@JohnHoyt - Agreed. While I agree that it makes sense to focus on customers and not products, it's not reasonable for all partners to support all products. It stretches resources way too thin.

@GaryFeldman - Yes, I've seen the product scoring before. They have been discussing it as part of the Sage CRM cross-sell initiatives and as part of the BPAC (they went through it last Friday). I will answer questions to the best of my abilities.

FWIW - I have been reviewing some of their data points in relation to my anecdotal experiences. Some matches tightly but some things are still in question. Also to note is the total number in the sample size might be small which can create large measures of uncertainty.

lies, damn lies, statistics

Great infomation and methodology. Also a little big-brother-ish Will they share this with the ROR or go at the customer without us based upon our profile in their system?

My experience so far with Sage calling our customers on add-ons, Sage is trying to convince them they need certain products, so the customer agrees to consider, and it gets sent to us to follow up. 90%+ of the cases they really have little interest, and I already know that. The result is that it wastes my time.

Sage has divided the channel into partners with fewer customer and partners with more customers. Sage has hired ""account managers"" that will be calling the clients of the partners that have fewer customers. The Regional Growth Managers in the field (reporting to Tom Miller) will be working with the partners that have more customers to help identify cross-sell opportunities and possible partnering with product specialist firms or with Sage internally to make the sale. As things move forward, if Sage makes the sale (for either type of partner), they will keep most (maybe all) of the software commission. I'm not sure if this is fair or not but - that's what is coming.

@PeterWolf And as I've said many times in the past - don't mess with our clients. Once they do this with CPA clients, it's even more of an issue in our firm.

The cheese will either move or get ripe. None of us should think we can stay the same and stay in the game.

Mr Yahoo Buzzwords talked about the ""Consumption Gap"" but Joe is still listing ""being on the latest version"" as a major value for the customer...

Why would Sage keep you if you only have 1-4 customers?

It would be interesting to see the number of partners in those breakdowns.

Why would someone continue to be a BP if they only have 1-4 customers?

The pyramid implies that there are more at 1-4 than the other levels. That can't be right.

The key take away is become really tight with your Regional Sales Manager who will control contact with cross sell team. We will notify you the BP after they cross sell.

@JohnHoyt - I think there are a lot of partners that signed up for a single deal to pocket the margin on the sale and then they stepped out. I know three systems groups that have done this to sell large CRM deals. They spent $2K in fees and received $20K in margins. Short-term mentality.

Questions are getting real dangerous so lets end the call abruptly...

I thought this was one of most substantial presentations we've seen from Langner, ever. His approach to defining the details of what they are after is essential if you want to have any chance of implementing it consistently through a large organization. Don't look at this as a 3-quarter program. If you look at it as a 3-5 process growth plan for Sage NA, it makes a lot of sense. In addition to the details, I thought the tone consistently included partners in the mix; earlier presentations sounded like ""partners"" were voiced to be politically correct. I think the layoffs might have included long-term employees who hadn't shown talent for working across products. My $.02.

I am driving back fr long weekend. Will catch up on comments tonight.

@JerryNorman - I think you are right on the money. I think Langner is finally getting the team organized over there and I believe that he has got the message that the partners are a big part of the Sage future. I don't think partners are the only part of their future though as the cross-sell programs almost demand more than any one single partner can provide. I also think that this is a multi-year approach to get attach rates up for cross-sell. As @PhilMcIntosh stated, there is still a big focus on ""on plan"" which I'm hoping (and am gently encouraging in all my conversations with Sage) that Sage will start to de-emphasize in favor of a more comprehensive plan. Now that they have product scores, it is easier for them to look at the opportunity to sell into off plan base without requiring the customers to get on plan. My contention is ... if we know someone needs CRM, why force them to get current and - potentially - risk losing out to Salesforce or Microsoft who won't care what version of Sage 100 they are on (or if they are on or off plan)?

I had my weekly call with my Regional Sales Manager right after this call, and we discussed the Partner Webcast. He mentioned using these tools, but also that Sage wants to work with us to identify how they can complement our efforts and to assist us with the clients. That is the way I see it also in that they are like my staff to either do front end or follow up work. He did not disagree with that strategy. At our level and the fact that we are close to our clients, it is not Sage's intention to sell add-on products to our clients directly, but to identify opportunities and to assist us to sell those.

@WayneSchulz @RobertWood.Looking over the comments it sounds like today's webinar was a very similar to what we heard at the ITA last week. Do you agree?

Which session - I'm not seen the powerpoints yet but overall I think so. @PeterWolf has correctly and very early called this game which is summed up as: Cross sell the x products or Sage is going to do it for you. Pursue the leads that Sage sends for cross sell or Sage is going to do it for you. The one unknown -- at least I've not been privy to any type of results -- is how well the formulas that Sage uses to identify cross-sell will result in actual sales. Have most of our customers been under-exposed to Sage? - Sage Payments - Sage CRM - Sage Intelligence I could take the negative side of this situations and argue that this is nothing more than arm twisting the channel to become cheerleaders which in many cases really are terrible (for how long have we been told that Sage CRM is really there only now to be told that the link is shitty ) What will the impact of Sage jumping in and pushing for us to cross-sell harder? Will it move the needle? I don't know the answer to this but would lean toward probably not.

Sitting at a dead stop on interstate. Vacation is starting well.

I don't think the recording is posted yet. @WayneSchulz has it right at a core level. One thing that impressed me was the way they approached the metrics: it struck me as Not Obviously Stupid. MAS-Sage CRM link has been weak for a long time. With contact promises to improve it. The linkage to other products is probably similar, but different: there are always quirks. I think the opportunity for us is offering independent but knowledgeable assessment and guidance for customers wanting to minimize unpleasant surprises in integration. One thing that does bother me is with BI. How pissed will Sage get if they are on a customer to use SI, but we've already told them that they should use Biznet instead?

@JerryNorman Have you? Told them?

Actually a good example is the Sage effort to push SmartLinc to StarShip customers. For the most part, StarShip customers are happy, and have an investment in the product. Unless SmartLinc is coming with a huge upgrade discount, they are not interested. They talk about the discount, but nothing across the board. In addition, the product has no track record to speak of for Sage 100. Sage talks about StarShip like it is not going to interface any longer, even though it will and V-Technologies is a development partner.

I think that if Sage comes to you with a list of customers that they've matched up as ""good fits"" you damn well better not cross sell a competitor -- at least not until a reasonable amount of time passes or you go back to Sage with a valid tangible reason of why the Sage product is a bad fit.

I agree with you, Wayne. In some cases, these can be certainties. For customers that do not have anything for that function yet, we should lead with the Sage solution, if it meets the customer's requirements. The problem Jerry and I point out is that some customers already have handled a function, such as shipping or BI, and they are happy with their solution. We and Sage need to move on to the next one on the list in those cases.

It will be important to document those conversations with customers so that Sage knows their matching wasn't appropriate. It will also get you off the Sage radar because I'm sure there will be other partners who unwisely tell Sage that they're going to take the list of possible customer cross-sell and sell them something else. This effort has Sage executive sponsorship - meaning that careers and bonuses are on the line. I'd be surprised (but not shocked) if they didn't take a very serious run at this and that means they're not going to let partner reluctance stand in the way of making a sale.

@WayneSchulz - I would like to address your comment ""I could take the negative side of this situations and argue that this is nothing more than arm twisting the channel to become cheerleaders which in many cases really are terrible (for how long have we been told that Sage CRM is really there only now to be told that the link is shitty )"" I don't think Sage is asking anyone to be cheerleaders. Instead, I think they are saying ""We are going to actively pursue and identify these cross-sell opportunities. If you would like to participate, that's great. If not, that's fine - we will find someone to do it."" Regarding the Sage CRM link in particular, for many of our clients, it works perfectly fine and clients are happy with it. It's important to understand: it's better than most of the other CRM-ERP integrations out there including Microsoft's integration. Sage can definitely improve the functionality in certain spots and - please believe me here - they know this and have heard it loud and clear from me and others. I have weekly calls to push the needle on this and have started to explore building our own integration to have better control over the future of the integration layer. Sage is having a big come to Jesus meeting about integrated Sage CRM in early December and I will share the results with the group after the meeting. I believe that it will be very good news for everyone. The biggest challenge facing the integration right now is that it isn't always consistent and Sage needs to fix that. For most clients, it works perfectly fine. For a minority, it is buggy and laggy. We were issued a hotfix last week for one of our clients that seems to have addressed this problem. We are still testing it out but so far it looks promising.

Regarding Sage taking cross-sell seriously ... it is beyond serious and beyond individual bonuses. They have now embedded this concept into their DNA. They are shifting - slowly and steadily - away from being an ERP business to ""being the most trusted provider of SMB solutions"" (I forget the specific mission statement). It's not 100% and they are still ERP focused in a lot of areas but they see the future as being in bed with the customers and providing good solutions for the customer needs.

What you described is arm twisting the channel to be cheerleaders.

What I'm saying is ... they don't care if you are a cheerleader or not. They are going to pursue the sale regardless of your level of enthusiasm.

I think one of the issues that John is trying to point out is what if the customer has Biznet and they want to sell Sage Intelligence. Or the customer spent a bunch of time and effort and used a Sugar integration and is very happy with it. And what if the business partner sold them that product? Are they supposed to say Sage is better? I think it is a smart strategy, but... it could also backfire if they push too hard and disregard a partner who represents multiple products as most NOW do.

@GaryFeldman - that's a tough one. Same thing with representing alternate solutions on any of the fronts. Sage has to realize: a) not many partners are going to back all products b) many partners may back competitive solutions in some of the areas c) many customers will be heavily influenced by partners I would hope this adds up to either make sure we have the best products in the Sage portfolio or fix them up fast.

There is an old Jethro Tull song playing in my head... ""Nothing is easy

We also are still at the point where if Sage identifies an opportunity and we as a business partner accept and pursue it, that's the end of Sage's involvement for the most part. If I find the client thinks the price is too much for them and I tell Sage that, that is the resolution. If Sage starts second guessing our strategy, our sales ability or just doesn't believe us and follows up after the resolution, then we have a problem, because trust is compromised. I don't want them to get to that place.

@JohnHoyt - That's definitely a huge concern. From a small perspective, I have asked (and am sitll waiting on a satisfactory answer) the following: If an ERP partner asks to work with Azamba to introduce CRM to their client base, how can we make sure Sage isn't calling in to those customers to discuss CRM? This was a point to tie-down when Sage was intiially only discussing CRM cross-sell but, now they are discussing a portfolio-based account management strategy, it becomes a potentially unsolvable riddle.

There's a voice in my head saying that SMBs aren't really going to believe that the big corporate voice on the phone saying that the spyware in the latest version of their ERP software tells them they could really benefit from buying these other products actually has the customer's best interests at heart, and then I remember that a Congress with <10% approval rating just got >90% re-elected. Even if Sage starts into this with good intentions regarding the channel, at some point cutting the channel out of deals to boost this quarter's revenue will just be too tempting.

At this point we are still partners with Sage. That normally means sharing the risks and profits. It also means there is a degree of trust. Cutting the channel out of deals violates the spirit of partnership.

If we see cross sell scorecards where just about all customers are marked for a specific product - then that will be a very different thing. For Sage Payments - I have to believe all customers will be market. For Sage Intelligence - why wouldn't all customers be marked when the initial license is ""free""? For Sage CRM why wouldn't all customers be marked when the initial license is free? I'm at 3 of the 8 or 9 that I believe they're pushing - almost half the list could be a ""go sell them

Same for FAS and Avalara and HRMS. Almost all customers could fit the bill.

I think they are trying to be more accurate with their scoring and find best fits. CRM isn't applicable for all types of customers ... yet. Just because the customer gets free licenses of something doesn't mean that they should buy it or even use it, right?

I am floored at the number Sage 100 users we have who don't even use FRx - just the GL Financials. The Consumption Gap is about that exactly. I think it's a huge opportunity for us, but I am having some difficulty figuring out exactly how to monetize it.

Yes ... the consumption gap basically is telling vendors like Sage, Microsoft, SAP and other ""old guard"" members that their software is too bloated and users aren't getting much from it. So the key is either: a) come out with streamlined versions of software (Intacct?, NetSuite?, Sage One?) or b) help users get more from their purchases (Sage Advisor?, Sage Partners?).

I'd like to think I help my customers utilize their software as much as possible but we all have customers who are not using some feature, even something as useful as ALE lookups. I can't tell you the number of times I'm onsite and show that quick and easy feature to a user. Or they own a module and don't use it (bank rec, anyone?). As I was watching today's webinar, I was thinking about all the customers I could be marketing additional add-ons to but I'm not. Perhaps not enough resources (since I waste so much time on Atlas/reconciling my Sage accounts/figuring out accurate maintenance renewals/etc.)? Or simply, shame on me?

@JimWoodhead it does sound like what we heard at ITA.

@ThereseLogeais - I would say your thoughts underscore the challenge of running any business - whether it's Sage or Technology Integrators or any other business. There isn't enough time in the the day to do everything perfectly in the real world. So we all have to focus on the things that we feel that we can do well and we can make money at and we have a passion for. Jim Collins dubbed this the ""Hedgehog Concept"". It's an interesting way of looking at your business and what things you will focus on. http://www.jimcollins.com/media_topics/hedgehog-concept.html or ... http://www.jeromecastaneda.com/hedgehog-concept-an-understanding-what-you-can-be-best-at

You can lead a horse to water.... oh never mind too cliche