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Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

  • 1.  Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-08-2020 21:30
    Edited by Wayne Schulz 11-03-2021 21:44
    Have a customer who spent 6-8 months agonizing about how to automate their sales tax. Without my involvement ( other than filling out order paperwork ) they bought Avalara.

    Apparently they somehow chose the “we will implement ourself” option to which Avalara basically replied “good luck” and here’s a list of the prices for what they term their implementation services but appear to be a variety of support plans.

    Avalara assigns an implementation guide - though from appearances if the customer didn’t buy a higher level of support that persons role is basically to guide them to but support.

    This company sells rare books through a variety of means - catalog, in person shows and marketplaces.

    Most of the configuration appears pretty straightforward except I’m not sure how they setup the marketplaces since almost all the ones they sell through collect and remit the sales tax for them. The “trick” is that they still ship that book out from their main office but just don’t collect sales tax.

    Has anyone set this up with Avalara before? And, if so, how?

    If I never see another Avalara rep again it will be too soon.


    UPDATE - 11/3/2021 - HERE'S WHAT I LEARNED ABOUT AVALARA MARKETPLACES AND THE SAGE CONNECTOR

    Sample Marketplace


    Location Code: MP = marketplace


    Use Item MARKET to test trigger of custom rule to try to flag a transaction coming in via the Sage 100 connector as marketplace.


    TESTING OF MARKETPLACE


    1. Avalara seems to pick up the warehouse code from Invoice HEADER as the Location Code
    2. Location Code ( In Avalara ) is also used at the Marketplace Location
    3. Make your Sage 100 warehouse code on the HEADER of your invoice match your marketplace code in Avalara
    4. You can change the warehouse codes on the lines tab to match your actual warehouse - this won't impact your Avalara transaction ( which only uses the header warehouse code )

    I am not able to test that this works and carries to returns that are filed by Avalara.

    However, using the above method the amounts do appear on the Sales Tax Summary By Marketplace Location report within Avalara.


    I was unable to get the Avalara Connector to work in conjunction with any Avalara Advanced Rules.


    Avalara help indicates you use Advanced Rules to automatically flag a marketplace transaction. This may be an inherent issue with the Sage 100 connector and integration to Avalara.


    I WAS able to get the Advanced Rules to work if I manually entered a transaction into the Avalara dashboard and told the rule to look for an item code "MARKET" on the lines and when found to flag the location as MP.. 


    It's possible there is some issue with the Custom Rules in Avalara as I can see a column labeled "Execution" and below it for the marketplace rule it says "Before". 


    For a manual transaction keyed into Avalara there is no warehouse code so therefore it's possible somehow Avalara writes that warehouse/header info after it does the advanced rule and may the warehouse overwrites the advanced rule? 





    ---------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ---------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-09-2020 09:02
    Exemption certificates???

    I agree that Avalara sells well but their support after the sale lags significantly.  None of their techs know diddly about Sage 100 under the hood.

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-10-2020 12:01
    @Wayne Schulz  is it your understanding that their entire inventory is available on the marketplace?  How many Items?  Do they use multiple warehouses?  Do they report marketplace sales on their own sales tax returns and combine the marketplace's tax remittances in their own ​on the tax return?

    ------------------------------
    Bob Pfahnl
    General Manager - Silicon Valley Office
    DSD Business Systems
    CA
    408-641-0922
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-11-2020 10:18
    I believe most of their book inventory is available through markeplaces. They use industry specific markets.

    My understanding is that they will file their own sales tax which I’m guessing is going to be a challenge for them.

    My suggestion to anyone thinking of using Avalara is to provide the customer a disclaimer on exactly what services you’re willing to provide and what the customer is going to need to do themself.

    Sadly I wasn’t involved in the meetings with Avalara and I think the customer is going to pay dearly if they even wind up moving forward. I just don’t know at all what Avalara did or didn’t promise. I just get the customer side who says they keep getting passed from one Avalara person to another.

    It’s a big mistake for Avalara to sell their services without implementation unless the buyer is just adding on additional companies to an existing system.

    ---------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ---------------------------------





  • 5.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-09-2020 09:54
    In their case, a marketplace sale looks like this.

    1. The inventory remains at their warehouse.
    2. They list the inventory online in the marketplace
    3. A customer buys from the marketplace
    4. The marketplace processes the sale in full - including sales tax ( which most marketplaces are now tasked with collecting and remitting )
    5. My customer then receives this order from the marketplace, they create an account for the person who bought the item ( which is shown on the order that the marketplace sends to my customer)  and then they ship the product from their warehouse.


    I guess they could create a separate sales tax code for marketplace sales however I believe some states have requirements that when you report sales for the purpose of nexus they want to know taxable, nontaxable, and perhaps marketplace-based sales.

    I'm concerned that if I don't set marketplace sales to go through Avalara then the customer is paying $$ for a sales tax service that they may not be fully utilizing.

    To be fair, Avalara does include knowledge articles regarding this topic but the "how-to" of the setup isn't immediately clear to me. 

    https://help.avalara.com/Avalara_AvaTax_Update/Add_marketplace_transactions_to_your_company_profile

    I wish I had been included in the initial discussions with Avalara because now it's impossible for me to know exactly what was promised ( or what the customer THOUGHT they heard ). The issue with this particular transaction is Avalara says the customer chose to self-install and this customer is very inexperienced and I doubt they will be able to self-install. 

    Except if a company is ALREADY an Avalara customer who is adding more company codes - the implementation charge seems like it should be added automatically to the sale and not an option. 

    Now I have to convince the customer that they need to pay Avalara and set their expectation that even after they pay that they will likely still need to project manage Avalara on their own and be diligent about tracking progress. 



    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-11-2020 18:49
    Is setting the marketplace as the customer and using a separate ship to for the actual customer not a viable option?  Would seem like you have a lot of one off customers the way it is now.  Since the marketplace also remits the money, would seem like a potential PITA applying the cash as well.

    If the market place was the customer, then you could use exemption certificates that Avalara hustles by only buying a limited number of them.  But this may not be the case if Avalara requires one per ship to.

    If you use a nontax sales code, then you don't have all of the sales in one place.  But if customer is filing sales tax reports, that would be an easy fix to combine all sales.

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-13-2020 07:34
    I have clients using Avalara with multiple Marketplaces - Amazon, Walmart, & eBay + their own website & net 30 sales. It needs much improvement when communicating to Avalara. And support via Avalara has been terrible. Each department pushes you to another for an answer. 

    The main issue is that it doesn't know to remove the sales tax in Sage when using the AVATAX schedule since the marketplace already collected it & is responsible for it. Avalara knows that, but by then it already posted the liability in the sales tax account in Sage & it shouldn't. Our workaround is to code these as NONTAX & then have to manually upload them to Avalara each month-end. This is still not perfect because of tax exemption certs. The two clients are setup differently in the streamline method or not. So one has to upload certs to Avalara & the other doesn't. If they don't match exactly, there is an issue. There is no way for us to flag it as exempt from the marketplace to pass a blanket or generic exemption. It only works if the customer is setup as exempt & they don't want a separate customer for every order. They put all Amazon orders in one Amazon customer in Sage. 

    Then there is the problem with state by state rules. Depending on the type of filings you do determine which states fall under these marketplace guidelines. We are down to only 1 or 2 states that don't have their tax collected by the marketplace. One customer has 1 state excluded; the other has 2.

    I've spoke to Joe @ DSD because they developed the connection piece, which needs to now allow for this marketplace situation & allow either the exemption number to be entered per order or designate the order as "Marketplace" in Sage. Have it remove the sales tax liability in Sage but still pass the order to Avalara, which then has its own Marketplace rules setup.
    My client has to do way too much manual work to be paying Avalara what they do. Joe spoke to some higher ups at Avalara & said it would be thousands to develop the fixes, which they would want my customer to pay for. It seems like this marketplace is the way things are headed more & more; they need to develop a fix themselves. 

    I would love some pressure on Avalara & DSD to actually fix these gaps in the communication & calculations between Sage when it comes to marketplaces.

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-13-2020 13:01

    Thank you, this is very helpful to know. I unfortunately wasn't involved when the customer spoke with and ultimately engaged Avalara. The feedback they provided me about being shuffled from one person to another is very familiar.

    This company is very unsophisticated and I think they are a little overwhelmed and uncertain about how much help Avalara will provide for both setup and ongoing assistance.

    I have seen another Sage partner recommend that VARS become engaged with Avalara right from the start or you risk being the "unpaid complaint department" for what Avalara may promise. I do think for this 3rd party solution that VARS need to make clear that if they are not retained to work with Avalara that the customer should expect to navigate some tricky waters and know all the questions to ask. 

    Right now I'm getting a lot of "oh, we didn't realize that" type questions and having to decide whether to get rid of Avalara or stay the course. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative so I suspect this customer will stay.



    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-13-2020 14:25
    I may have missed something in the conversation and over-simplifying, but:

    The Retailer in this scenario is the marketplace which is responsible for collecting and remitting sales tax. 

    Your customer is selling to the marketplace which should have a Resale exemption on file. 

    They need to Bill To the marketplace, and Ship To the end user.

    ------------------------------
    Eric Lunceford
    First Mate Business Solutions
    Oklahoma City, OK
    877-880-8960
    https://www.firstmatellc.com/
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-13-2020 14:31
    Yes, I think the missing piece is that the marketplace may collect on your behalf and remit on your behalf for which you may have to file a sales tax return listing that amount. From what I've seen these laws can vary from state to state.

    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-13-2020 15:01
    It seems to me the whole point of Avalara is selling "You don't have to worry about Sales tax compliance".  If they are collecting their exorbitant fees but still telling customers they have to pay for code modification to handle new areas of compliance, that's ridiculous.  They probably collect more from EACH of their Sage 100 customers each year than what it would cost to add an AVAMKT tax schedule to the integration.

    ------------------------------
    Phil McIntosh
    President
    Friendly Systems, Inc.
    Asheville NC
    678.273.4010 ext 5
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-21-2020 10:43
    @Dana Young ​- .....would be thousands to develop the fixes, which they would want my customer to pay for.  Just love this strategy when you really don't want to do something, quote two arms and 1.5 legs to tell the client to back off.

    I have a client using market places as well.  She is very frustrated with the process.  She uses certs for tax exemptions which are based on ship to's.  This is very costly to do and difficult to manage manually.......

    Lots of room for improvement if someone would step up and do it at Avalara.  But why bother, at this point, it is like taking candy from a baby.  Why change the cash cow.

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-21-2020 11:12
    @Jeff Schwenk I finally snagged a video call with some higher ups at Avalara yesterday. They understood the issues with the taxable marketplaces & the non-tax exemptions. I laid it all out & sent them a summary as well. We discussed Amazon, Walmart, eBay, BigCommerce & how there are issues that need correction. They need to know there are more clients with the same struggles & feel the pressure.  
    I'd be happy to send you their contact info to add your client to the list.

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-21-2020 11:41
    If you are comfortable posting it here for others to highlight their struggles, the please do so.  We also need to get Jeff Roth involved in the conversations as well he could be a great Sage advocate.

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-21-2020 11:48
    Jeff Roth was one of the 3 on that call yesterday. So, yes, he is in the loop. Along with Matthew Scoble & Courtney Engels. If you have an open communication method with any of them, I would reach out. Otherwise I can send you what I have.

    Also, Mark Withers from Avalara is aware.
    As with Joe De Maria & Jon Reiter from DSD.

    I don't hold back & will pull everyone I can into the conversations to advocate for my clients. :)

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-21-2020 13:08
    Any titles and email addresses to go along with the Avalara names?  We all know the J team at DSD.

    ------------------------------
    Jeff Schwenk
    FORMER 90M Board Member
    Bottomline Software, Inc.
    Waynesboro VA
    540-221-4444
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-22-2020 16:04
    If you have clients affected by the Avalara connector to Sage 100 with Marketplace transactions, please reach out to:
    Courtney Engels | Strategic Alliance Manager
    o: +1 (919) 6950424
    e: courtney.engels@avalara.com

    She is collecting the info on clients that need a resolution.
    The more we can send her the bettter.

    Thanks!

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 14:13
    Has there been any improvement in the treatment of marketplace orders in Avalara?

    On the surface it seems like if you create a special Advanced Rule like this 



    That Avalara should code the transaction as a marketplace sale
    I did this which seemed pretty simple and tested by posting an invoice
    It didn't seem to treat that invoice any differently and the invoice did not appear on the one report ( which I found ) that lists Sales Tax Summary by Marketplace Location



    I have read through the replies in this thread ( my poor experience with Avalara matches Dana's exactly ) and am hoping that we won't be creating manual spreadsheets to import marketplace transactions.

    I have a support ticket into Avlara but have set the bar very low as to what we should expect from their support.

    Am I doing something wrong with the rule? Is there a better way to do this than manually importing a spreadsheet?

    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz
    Schulz Consulting
    860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 14:18
    Not yet that I've seen. I sent the logic/process details to Joe @ DSD in mid-Sept. Hoping there is a release soon! ​

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 14:27

    @Dana Young did you try setting up an advanced rule? That seems as if it should be the solution but I am not sure the rule works or maybe the connector doesn't bring in the salesperson?

    The fallback appears to be if you add an inventory item to the invoice - which the connector definitely should read. It appears you can create an advanced rule to read the item code and where there is a match set the location ( marketplace ) code.

    It was easier for the customer to use the salesperson because that's how they were already doing their invoices

    I may have to try adding an item number and seeing if the advanced rule picks that up

    I​ had a similar conversation with Melissa Craig at Avalara ( she is apparently another mgr of strategic alliances ).  And similar experiences with everyone at Avlara. It's one lengthy series of handing you off to person after person and I now think that is happening because many people are new and they aren't familiar with Sage or Avalara.



    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz
    Schulz Consulting
    860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 14:39
    @Wayne Schulz
    Yes, we tried all of those advanced rules, etc. It just doesn't work for Marketplace because it wants to charge the tax again, even though the Marketplace charged it & withheld it already. The workaround is setting to Nontax so the Sage side is correct & then importing them all at month-end. The customer I have is using like 40k skus; we are not maintaining it at the item level with rules. And, for them, it depends on where it was sold.. their own site or a marketplace site. So its customer or source specific more than the item itself.  

    My suggestion to DSD was a separate Marketplace tax field that would send the sales & tax dollars to Avalara as marketplace but not add it to the invoice total or liability on Sage side. And, being able to flag the customer & invoice as Marketplace (like a checkbox) so it can be managed at those levels, if needed.​

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 15:20
    Perhaps I'm reading the Avalara site wrong - it seems like their rules should separate out the marketplace tax ( which does still get calculated ). 

    https://help.avalara.com/Avalara_AvaTax_Update/Create_an_advanced_rule_to_exclude_marketplace_transactions

    The above is what I tried to do
    Using salesperson as a field to base the rule on didn't work and I was thinking that maybe salesperson isn't a field that the Sage 100 connector brings into Avalara and that's why the advanced rule wasn't working.

    We submitted an Avalara ticket.
    I have a sense of dread when thinking about the first return that this customer is going to have Avalara file on their behalf

    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz
    Schulz Consulting
    860-516-8990
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 10-25-2021 14:20
    And no, this is the best method we have found.. manual uploads.
    PITA

    ------------------------------
    Dana Young
    Lehman Wesley & Associates
    Lansing MI
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Avalara Setup With Marketplaces

    Posted 11-04-2021 10:18
    As Dana already noted above - Avalara advanced rules don't seem to work with the Sage connector.

    The only way I found to enter a marketplace transaction using  Sage was to make sure the header warehouse code was the same as a marketplace location I had setup in Avalara.

    Even then there is still an issue with Sage creating the sales tax liability for a marketplace which is remitting on the behalf of the company.

    Avalara help files claim that an advanced rule can flag the transaction as a marketplace though my testing was not able to prove that. The Avalara advanced rules DO work as described if you manually enter a transaction to the Avalara dashboard though.

    Be very cautious with any customers who are looking to acquire Avalara. This is a project. Do not take on the role of project manager without a fee agreement in place. Avalara will not play any role in project managing your implementation - it's all up to the customer.

    ------------------------------
    Wayne Schulz
    Schulz Consulting
    860-516-8990
    ------------------------------