90 Minds Community

End user has a 100% increase in Avalara fees over the prior year, though overall transaction volume (invoices) remains the same. End user is now using AVATAX for every invoice as they are now collecting in 25 states, whereas previously it was just two.

I thought that fees were base on just invoices submitted to AVATAX. End user is being told there will now be a fee for every API call (sales order calc, address verification). Has anyone else experienced significant fee increases? Has Avalara changed policies?

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Has always been my understanding that Avalara tagged you for every transaction leading up to and including SO invoice.  Perhaps all the nontax states were previously marked as NONTAX but are now Avatax????  They should reach out for an explanation.  One of my clients got into an overage situation so Avalara dinged them for overages instead of offering to move them to the next tier.

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500
------------------------------

Avalara charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500
------------------------------

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

Here is a video about how they calculate. https://www.avalara.com/simplify/en/customer/avatax-usage.html
This is what they sent a customer of mine who was surprised by the increase of fee. In their case there was a row for an unknown connection. Not Sage and not the Web since both of those had there own line. They blamed that on the web not having the connector license (but was still calling to their system and it was counting the connections under a row specifically showing it was from the website). Customer stopped using his website for pre sales which calculated tax and raised the fee but they still think it is more than it should be based on how they say they calculate.

------------------------------
Todd Martin
MBA Business Software (https://www.mbabsi.com)
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:39
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

IMO, these sorts of disputes and questions will only increase as more customers see their multistate tax liabilities.

Avalara does a terrible job of providing th transparency needed for customers to understand all this. Sage is absolutely NO help at all in this, and sort of gets in the way, as Avalara sort of sees our customers as Sage's, not theirs.

Even when a customer agrees there is no mistake in the charges, they often still aren't happy. This is simply one of many "infrastructure" fees that have been seeping into the "simple" accounting processes that used to be. Shifting from on-prem to cloud servers is another (sort of).

I wonder if there's something that 90 Minds could do that might help both our members and their customers in this?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 09:52
From: Todd Martin
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Here is a video about how they calculate. https://www.avalara.com/simplify/en/customer/avatax-usage.html
This is what they sent a customer of mine who was surprised by the increase of fee. In their case there was a row for an unknown connection. Not Sage and not the Web since both of those had there own line. They blamed that on the web not having the connector license (but was still calling to their system and it was counting the connections under a row specifically showing it was from the website). Customer stopped using his website for pre sales which calculated tax and raised the fee but they still think it is more than it should be based on how they say they calculate.

------------------------------
Todd Martin
MBA Business Software (https://www.mbabsi.com)
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:39
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

Avalara does a terrible job

That summarizes all aspects of the customer service experience

---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
---------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

IMO, these sorts of disputes and questions will only increase as more customers see their multistate tax liabilities.

Avalara does a terrible job of providing th transparency needed for customers to understand all this. Sage is absolutely NO help at all in this, and sort of gets in the way, as Avalara sort of sees our customers as Sage's, not theirs.

Even when a customer agrees there is no mistake in the charges, they often still aren't happy. This is simply one of many "infrastructure" fees that have been seeping into the "simple" accounting processes that used to be. Shifting from on-prem to cloud servers is another (sort of).

I wonder if there's something that 90 Minds could do that might help both our members and their customers in this?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 09:52
From: Todd Martin
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Here is a video about how they calculate. https://www.avalara.com/simplify/en/customer/avatax-usage.html
This is what they sent a customer of mine who was surprised by the increase of fee. In their case there was a row for an unknown connection. Not Sage and not the Web since both of those had there own line. They blamed that on the web not having the connector license (but was still calling to their system and it was counting the connections under a row specifically showing it was from the website). Customer stopped using his website for pre sales which calculated tax and raised the fee but they still think it is more than it should be based on how they say they calculate.

------------------------------
Todd Martin
MBA Business Software (https://www.mbabsi.com)
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:39
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112

Thank you all that posted.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 12:11
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara does a terrible job

That summarizes all aspects of the customer service experience

---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
---------------------------------




Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

IMO, these sorts of disputes and questions will only increase as more customers see their multistate tax liabilities.

Avalara does a terrible job of providing th transparency needed for customers to understand all this. Sage is absolutely NO help at all in this, and sort of gets in the way, as Avalara sort of sees our customers as Sage's, not theirs.

Even when a customer agrees there is no mistake in the charges, they often still aren't happy. This is simply one of many "infrastructure" fees that have been seeping into the "simple" accounting processes that used to be. Shifting from on-prem to cloud servers is another (sort of).

I wonder if there's something that 90 Minds could do that might help both our members and their customers in this?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 09:52
From: Todd Martin
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Here is a video about how they calculate. https://www.avalara.com/simplify/en/customer/avatax-usage.html
This is what they sent a customer of mine who was surprised by the increase of fee. In their case there was a row for an unknown connection. Not Sage and not the Web since both of those had there own line. They blamed that on the web not having the connector license (but was still calling to their system and it was counting the connections under a row specifically showing it was from the website). Customer stopped using his website for pre sales which calculated tax and raised the fee but they still think it is more than it should be based on how they say they calculate.

------------------------------
Todd Martin
MBA Business Software (https://www.mbabsi.com)


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:39
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

If someone were to do a TaxJar Sage 100 integration, I think they be able to take a majority of the Avalara customers on Sage 100.

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 10:11
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

IMO, these sorts of disputes and questions will only increase as more customers see their multistate tax liabilities.

Avalara does a terrible job of providing th transparency needed for customers to understand all this. Sage is absolutely NO help at all in this, and sort of gets in the way, as Avalara sort of sees our customers as Sage's, not theirs.

Even when a customer agrees there is no mistake in the charges, they often still aren't happy. This is simply one of many "infrastructure" fees that have been seeping into the "simple" accounting processes that used to be. Shifting from on-prem to cloud servers is another (sort of).

I wonder if there's something that 90 Minds could do that might help both our members and their customers in this?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 06-30-2021 09:52
From: Todd Martin
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Here is a video about how they calculate. https://www.avalara.com/simplify/en/customer/avatax-usage.html
This is what they sent a customer of mine who was surprised by the increase of fee. In their case there was a row for an unknown connection. Not Sage and not the Web since both of those had there own line. They blamed that on the web not having the connector license (but was still calling to their system and it was counting the connections under a row specifically showing it was from the website). Customer stopped using his website for pre sales which calculated tax and raised the fee but they still think it is more than it should be based on how they say they calculate.

------------------------------
Todd Martin
MBA Business Software (https://www.mbabsi.com)


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:39
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

So far what I can glean from emails between the end user and Avalara is that sales tax calculations for orders and invoices count toward AVATAX usage. This was changed by Avalara in November 2020. In my case, the increased usage was due to more states added for sales tax and the change in Avalara's policy. The COVID pandemic and the associated decrease in business volume may have masked the increase and now as business transactions increase, end users are being contacted by Avalara when they are reaching their annual transaction service ceilings.

------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 16:31
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Are you mixing A words above?

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 13:05
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Acumatica charges every time you hit its server. If a customer sells to both end customers and to resellers (who collect their own sales tax upon sale to end customer) Avalara charges for the reseller even though it doesn't owe any tax. It's important for Sage users to know this going into Avalara.

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2021 09:37
From: Billy Balser
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

It is my understanding the invoices count as a "transaction" and that non-invoice API  calls count as one-tenth of a transaction.

------------------------------
Billy Balser
Sage 100 Consultant
Blytheco LLC
Atlanta GA
9495839500

I just posted in another message that one of my customers is now in this situation where their Avatax has essentially doubled in cost. 

1. Does Avalara have any type of report that they can send to show usage?  It does not seem like just counting the number of invoices will add up to the transaction cost since Avalara also bills for API and address validations. 

If there is a report that is generated - can the customer generate it from the Avalara portal or do you have to request the report from Avalara?

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX? 

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX? 

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts? 


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details. 

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 17:57
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX?

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX?

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts?


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

My customer claims they asked Avalara and the rep thought once the connector was installed that it would pick up every transaction no matter what sales tax schedule was used.

This is contrary to my belief as I was pretty sure only those accounts with AVATAX in the sales tax schedule were computed and charged.

I have found most of the Avalara reps - no matter what title they use - know very little about Sage and only a very narrow bit about Avalara. Mostly just enough to answer very basic questions.

My experience with Avalara is like a game of hot potato. You give one rep a question and they throw it to another who you need to make an appointment with. It’s comically bad.

I’d say 85% of the issues with Avalara could be covered by just having a decent knowledgebase with details on FAQ.

Every time I see an FAQ that is vague my first thought is “someone who didn’t know the product was forced to write this FAQ”.

Some of the pre-recorded training is downright unhelpful. As a customer signing on to Avalara I might expect that they provide some guidance on which return types to file by state. But they don’t do that. And the recorded training they ask you to watch is so generic with suggestions that you select whatever forms you are required to file in a specific state.

---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
---------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details. 

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------

@Jerry Norman - My understanding before was they charged only for INVOICES, so if it a NONTAX invoice, it was still charged. Recently, we were told it was the call to the API​ as well as the invoice transaction. This was to cover "quotes" and "orders" which never turned into invoices.

------------------------------
Regards,

Lloyd Smith
Mindover Software
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 18:20
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details.

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 17:57
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX?

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX?

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts?


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990

I know that only AVATAX shows in the dashboard. If I change the sales tax schedule to NONTAX that doesn’t pull anything into Avalara. I’m not sure on what basis they’d be able to charge if nothing was being tracked in the system.




---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
---------------------------------



Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021
From: Lloyd Smith
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

@Jerry Norman - My understanding before was they charged only for INVOICES, so if it a NONTAX invoice, it was still charged. Recently, we were told it was the call to the API​ as well as the invoice transaction. This was to cover "quotes" and "orders" which never turned into invoices.

------------------------------
Regards,

Lloyd Smith
Mindover Software
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 18:20
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details.

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112
------------------------------

Wow, 15+ years of having the Avalara interface and confusion still reigns supreme.  If there was ever a third party app that needed a knowledgeable reseller, look no further.  Avalara's tech support is still in an MS-DOS world.  Maybe only the "shadow" knows the story behind the Avalara curtain...  Avalara is the ultimate in transaction billing.  It is my understanding (please correct this if wrong) if you assign "AVATAX" as the tax schedule, a transaction takes place EVERY time the SO is updated (created or modified).  If you validate an address, this is a transaction.  You are charged a transaction for every invoice and probably for every backordered SO.  You can circumvent this by assigning a tax schedule to something other than "AVATAX".  But then you create a second database for sales.  Now you have to combine them to get a total sales picture.  What happens if you are relying on Avalara to submit your tax returns but they aren't aware of the non taxable sales for the state.  Can get ugly very quickly.

Simplest solution is to ask DSD to shed some light on the interface.  But good luck with that.

Everything said in prior posts is very true.  Avalara's growth has exceeded their ability to keep up.  Their on line self help training is lacking.  Finding a knowledgeable person who knows the Avalara AND Sage is nearly impossible.

Might be something the 90M Admin team could get behind but I hold little hope that that will happen.  Sage has no incentive to collaborate with us.  The exponential success of Avalara gives them little reason work with us.

If only our name was Intacct or X3........


------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member -140,000,000 is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 19:33
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

I know that only AVATAX shows in the dashboard. If I change the sales tax schedule to NONTAX that doesn't pull anything into Avalara. I'm not sure on what basis they'd be able to charge if nothing was being tracked in the system.




---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
---------------------------------




Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021
From: Lloyd Smith
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

@Jerry Norman - My understanding before was they charged only for INVOICES, so if it a NONTAX invoice, it was still charged. Recently, we were told it was the call to the API​ as well as the invoice transaction. This was to cover "quotes" and "orders" which never turned into invoices.

------------------------------
Regards,

Lloyd Smith
Mindover Software
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 18:20
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details.

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 17:57
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX?

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX?

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts?


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990

@Wayne Schulz I am 99.99% certain you are correct that the sales tax schedule must be AVATAX for it to go through the AvaTax connector to be captured by Avalara. 

Keep in mind that any invoices processed with NONTAX or some other non-AVATAX tax schedule will not show up in the sales tax reports that Avalara captures.  It's not that big of a deal unless Avalara is filing all of the customer's tax returns. 

I also think you could apply the NONTAX tax schedule to specific customers that are tax exempt if you were really trying to reduce Avalara fees.  That would require some serious thought and management, but it could be done.

------------------------------
Brian Kelly
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
Columbia SC
803-454-6262
http://www.asifocus.com/
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 19:33
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

I know that only AVATAX shows in the dashboard. If I change the sales tax schedule to NONTAX that doesn't pull anything into Avalara. I'm not sure on what basis they'd be able to charge if nothing was being tracked in the system.




---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
---------------------------------




Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021
From: Lloyd Smith
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

@Jerry Norman - My understanding before was they charged only for INVOICES, so if it a NONTAX invoice, it was still charged. Recently, we were told it was the call to the API​ as well as the invoice transaction. This was to cover "quotes" and "orders" which never turned into invoices.

------------------------------
Regards,

Lloyd Smith
Mindover Software
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 18:20
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details.

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 17:57
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX?

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX?

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts?


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990

Only AVATAX Tax Schedule coded transactions ping their tax engine and count as API calls.  Charges against tier are API calls or documents computed daily, whichever is higher.

Understanding Avalara AvaTax Usage - YouTube

------------------------------
Bob Pfahnl
Manager - Silicon Valley
DSD Business Systems
San Diego CA
408-641-0922
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-19-2021 08:56
From: Brian Kelly
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

@Wayne Schulz I am 99.99% certain you are correct that the sales tax schedule must be AVATAX for it to go through the AvaTax connector to be captured by Avalara.

Keep in mind that any invoices processed with NONTAX or some other non-AVATAX tax schedule will not show up in the sales tax reports that Avalara captures.  It's not that big of a deal unless Avalara is filing all of the customer's tax returns.

I also think you could apply the NONTAX tax schedule to specific customers that are tax exempt if you were really trying to reduce Avalara fees.  That would require some serious thought and management, but it could be done.

------------------------------
Brian Kelly
Accounting Systems, Inc. (ASI)
Columbia SC
803-454-6262
http://www.asifocus.com/
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 19:33
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

I know that only AVATAX shows in the dashboard. If I change the sales tax schedule to NONTAX that doesn't pull anything into Avalara. I'm not sure on what basis they'd be able to charge if nothing was being tracked in the system.




---------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021
From: Lloyd Smith
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

@Jerry Norman - My understanding before was they charged only for INVOICES, so if it a NONTAX invoice, it was still charged. Recently, we were told it was the call to the API​ as well as the invoice transaction. This was to cover "quotes" and "orders" which never turned into invoices.

------------------------------
Regards,

Lloyd Smith
Mindover Software


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 18:20
From: Jerry Norman
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Avalara's billing detail practices are hardly a paragon of transparency. I still don't understand why a customer can run a report to audit their charges, sort of like credit card details.

That said, the fees are supposed to only be charged when the order actually hits the Avalara server. I'm pretty sure that a status of "NONTAX" is outside this. Has anybody asked Avalara tech support just this simple question?

------------------------------
Jerry Norman
At-Large BOD Member, 90 Minds
Smartbridge Partners
512.419.1444 x112


Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2021 17:57
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

Currently, my customer added the AVATAX sales tax schedule to every customer. Even those in states where they were not subject to collect sales tax ( I was not involved in the setup when they got going ).

If the customer has 10 states that they are subject to sales tax in - can they JUST keep the bill to / ship-to addresses that are in those states using the AVATAX sales tax schedule and set the remainder of the states to NONTAX?

This seems like it would cut down on Avalara transaction fees

And if they switch the remaining states to NONTAX will Avalara still charge them for the customers where the sales tax schedule is NONTAX?

I think the answer to this is no - so long as you aren't using the AVATAX schedule there is no charge from Avalara -  but the customer is livid over 2x fee increases and I don't think they can get a straight answer out of Avalara over how they can cust down on what they see as a doubling of Avalara fees.

Thoughts?


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990

I logged into one of my customers who is just starting to use Avalara and I think I'm starting to get an idea of how the charges accumulate:


From what I can see the total of the below items are added together to create the number of billable transactions:

Definitions

Domestic Documents:
Also known as documents. Transactions with tax calculation where the ship-to and ship-from addresses are in the same country. I think this is referring to posted invoices. My customer does not use sales orders but I logged in and created a sales order ( without pulling it into invoice entry ) and this number did not go up.

API Calls:
Total calls to Avalara's tax calculation API, divided by 10, from days where API calls contributed to billable usage. This is tough to know whether sales order entry also impacts this number since I would have to enter at least 10 items ( unsure if both Sales Orders and Sales Order Invoices count here).

Line Items:
Also known as invoice lines. The total number of lines, divided by 35, from days where document lines contributed to billable usage. 

Address Validations:
Total calls to Avalara's address validation API, divided by 10. Address validations specific to calculating tax don't count toward this total.

Other Connectors:
Total calls to Avalara's address validation API, divided by 10. Address validations specific to calculating tax don't count toward this total

What I don't know is exactly what combination of the above is charged to the customer.  Charging for API calls and documents seems like it's double counting unless Avalara users API calls to try to cut down on customers who might use Avalara to compute a sales order then delete the SO and manually enter into Sales Order Invoice?

Much of this is speculation on my part since there wasn't anything I could find ( aside from the video linked above ) to explain EXACTLY how Avalara computes their fee.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

Is there any alternative to Avalara which integrates well to Sage 100? 

Has anyone found a way to cut back on the Avalara transaction costs? 

My customer had set up all of their accounts on AVATAX ( sales tax schedule ) and we are thinking that we should only be setting up the states where we presently have nexus ( yes we realize that now means Avalara doesn't know about those transactions and can't advise us).  I have another much smaller customer who is still in the go live process and we only setup the customers bill to/ship to where the state was in one of the ones we collect tax to be AVATAX - everything else we flagged NONTAX.

In my recent experience - Avalara does such a poor job of communicating that I don't trust they would proactively reach out with notification of possible approaching nexus so I question whether we should be spending money to activate all the states by virtue of using the AVATAX sales tax schedule even in places where we presently have no filing obligation. Anyone see anything differently? 


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

I spent a crazy amount of time talking to my customer about this over the past week. Avalara was unable to produce complete detail to support their transaction counts. We asked them for info for about a week with a lot of what I'll call buck passing. At best we got a spreadsheet with under 200 transactions which Avalara seemed to think constituted some type of detail that justified a doubling of fees.

Finally this morning I couldn't take any more and emailed Jeff Roth. He put me in touch with Melissa Craig ( Manager Strategic Alliances ) - (314) 9605688
e: melissa.craig@avalara.com.

We also had a meeting to discuss the charges on the customer's account and the projected significant increase in fees. They negotiated to where the customer was happy yet Avalara still seemed unprepared to provide any detail on why they customer's transaction count shot up.

To be clear - the customer is not disputing that they have a lot of transactions. Their concern is that they renewed in May and that nobody from Avalara contacted them to discuss any change in the way that transactions were being counted.

As of now I'm still unsure where the large increase has come from although Avalara has repeatedly said they had issues with the connector previously and were not counting a lot of transactions but now they are. 

To which our response was essentially - fine but please show us where these transactions come from so we can mitigate our usage of Avalara.

My head continues to spin from this situation and from what I can tell ( guess ) the billing issue may arise unexpected in most cases where you have a lot of sales tax calculation or recalculation as well as high volume of invoices. In this customers case they are going VI jobs into Sales Order Entry which may be updating existing orders and I wonder if that could account for some of this --- as well as a website.

The customer doesn't dispute that they are growing and using Avalra. What they dispute are essentially two things: (a) Poor account management and (b) Lack of detail about where the transaction increase is coming from.

An update for anyone who is searching in the future on a similar topic.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

This sounds just like the Texas Toll Road charges and how you are charged when you weren’t even in the state!

Regards,

Lloyd


Original Message:
Sent: 10/21/2021 3:57:00 PM
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: RE: Avalara Fees - Recently Changed?

I spent a crazy amount of time talking to my customer about this over the past week. Avalara was unable to produce complete detail to support their transaction counts. We asked them for info for about a week with a lot of what I'll call buck passing. At best we got a spreadsheet with under 200 transactions which Avalara seemed to think constituted some type of detail that justified a doubling of fees.

Finally this morning I couldn't take any more and emailed Jeff Roth. He put me in touch with Melissa Craig ( Manager Strategic Alliances ) - (314) 9605688
e: melissa.craig@avalara.com.

We also had a meeting to discuss the charges on the customer's account and the projected significant increase in fees. They negotiated to where the customer was happy yet Avalara still seemed unprepared to provide any detail on why they customer's transaction count shot up.

To be clear - the customer is not disputing that they have a lot of transactions. Their concern is that they renewed in May and that nobody from Avalara contacted them to discuss any change in the way that transactions were being counted.

As of now I'm still unsure where the large increase has come from although Avalara has repeatedly said they had issues with the connector previously and were not counting a lot of transactions but now they are. 

To which our response was essentially - fine but please show us where these transactions come from so we can mitigate our usage of Avalara.

My head continues to spin from this situation and from what I can tell ( guess ) the billing issue may arise unexpected in most cases where you have a lot of sales tax calculation or recalculation as well as high volume of invoices. In this customers case they are going VI jobs into Sales Order Entry which may be updating existing orders and I wonder if that could account for some of this --- as well as a website.

The customer doesn't dispute that they are growing and using Avalra. What they dispute are essentially two things: (a) Poor account management and (b) Lack of detail about where the transaction increase is coming from.

An update for anyone who is searching in the future on a similar topic.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------

Avalara pointed us to their terms for info on how they compute our fee: 

https://www.avalara.com/us/en/legal/avatax-terms.html

1.TRANSACTION CALCULATIONS

a. Transaction Usage. Fees for usage of AvaTax are based on the number of Transactions used in AvaTax by Customer. Avalara will charge a number of "Transactions" used each day equal to the greater of the results of (i) or (ii) below:

i. The number of Documents recorded; or
ii. The number of API calls to the tax calculation service recorded, divided by 10.

In addition to the Transactions counted under (i) or (ii) above, every 10 API calls to the address validation service, other than API calls that are specifically associated with a tax calculation, will count as one Transaction. The number of Transactions used will be measured on a daily basis. For purposes of calculating Transactions used, fractional Transactions will be rounded up to the next whole number.

b. Document Definition. A "Document" is any record that is entered, uploaded, or otherwise recorded in AvaTax by Customer. Documents include, for example, committed sales invoices, purchase invoices, inventory transfer invoices, return invoices, and committed ecommerce shopping carts. Each such record will count as one Document for purposes of calculating usage of AvaTax, as will each subsequent alteration of the record. All such records will be considered Documents, regardless of the tax result generated by AvaTax, except for records on which no tax is calculated solely because the Customer has configured AvaTax to not calculate tax because the Customer does not have nexus in that jurisdiction. For purposes of calculating Document usage, each Document is assumed to have 35 or fewer invoice lines. If the ratio of invoice lines per Document exceeds 35/1 in any day, the number of Documents counted for that day will be the total number of invoice lines in that day divided by 35.

c. Global Transactions.

i. International Tax Transactions. If Customer records any Documents or API calls for which the ship-from and ship-to addresses are in different countries, Avalara will count such Documents or API calls as "International Tax Transactions." International Tax Transaction usage is calculated using the methodology set forth in Section 1(a) (Transaction Usage) above, and the specific number of Transactions used for each International Tax Transaction will be 1.15 Transactions.

ii. Customs Transactions. If Customer records an International Tax Transaction that includes a pre-classified harmonized tariff code, then Avalara will count the customs duty and import tax calculations performed as a "Customs Transaction." Customs Transaction usage is calculated using the methodology set forth in Section 1(a) above (Transaction Usage), and the specific number of Transactions used for each Customs Transaction will be 1.75 Transactions.

iii. Estimated Customs Transactions. If Customer configures AvaTax to provide estimated customs charges based on Customer's item description, Avalara will count the customs duty and import tax calculations performed as an "Estimated Customs Transaction." Estimated Customs Transaction usage is calculated using the methodology set forth in Section 1(a) (Transaction Usage) above, and the specific number of Transactions used for each Estimated Customs Transaction will be 2.0 Transactions. Customer is responsible for any variance between the estimated customs charges in the Estimated Customs Transaction and the actual customs charges owed to an applicable government authority.

iv. The Accuracy Guarantee does not apply to the Services set forth in this Section 1(c) (Global Transactions).

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz
Schulz Consulting
860-516-8990
------------------------------