General Consultant Discussion

Dear Sage Partner,

 

Sage is working on building a great SaaS company for our customers, our partners and our colleagues alike.  We are committed to providing our partners with the best experience, just like the way we serve our customers, and at times, we know we miss the mark on providing you with this level of experience.

 

Regrettably, we are writing to inform you of a systems error that has affected your commission calculation for certain Sage transactions. Dating back to October of 2017, our IT system used to calculate partner commissions was incorrectly calculating partner commissions for Sage 100cloud & Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. The commission calculation logic incorrectly used the installed base margin rate for the monthly renewal instead of the subscription renewal margin rate of 30% for the first year. On May 10, 2019, we applied an update to our system that corrected the commission calculation rate moving forward for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals.

 

Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019. We understand the sensitivity of this issue and have made the decision to forgo recovering commission overpayments prior to the beginning of Sage's current Fiscal Year 2019 (i.e., any commission overpayments which were made prior to October 1, 2018 will not be recovered).

We have calculated the overpayment amount during the current Sage fiscal year from October 1, 2018 through May 2019. To minimize the impact of the overpayment amount due Sage, we are implementing a 6-month repayment period and no cash will need to change hands. Sage will deduct 6 equal installments of the Fiscal Year 2019 overpayment amount due from your monthly partner commission payment starting with July's commission.

 

Before communicating this information directly to you, our sales operations team reviewed and validated the effected transactions, to ensure we are providing you with accurate details. Attached to this email communication is a file containing the transaction details used to calculate the overpayment value for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. There is no action needed on your part to start the deduction of the 6 equal installments. If you prefer instead to resolve this with a single repayment of the total overpayment due to Sage, please reach out to me for assistance.

 

We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we appreciate your understanding of this situation.  Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 

Sincerely,

Lorna Stoecker

Credit and Collections Analyst

Channel Partner Division

SAGE

Lorna.Stoecker@Sage.com

678-280-5000  X330345

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

------Original Message------

Dear Sage Partner,

 

Sage is working on building a great SaaS company for our customers, our partners and our colleagues alike.  We are committed to providing our partners with the best experience, just like the way we serve our customers, and at times, we know we miss the mark on providing you with this level of experience.

 

Regrettably, we are writing to inform you of a systems error that has affected your commission calculation for certain Sage transactions. Dating back to October of 2017, our IT system used to calculate partner commissions was incorrectly calculating partner commissions for Sage 100cloud & Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. The commission calculation logic incorrectly used the installed base margin rate for the monthly renewal instead of the subscription renewal margin rate of 30% for the first year. On May 10, 2019, we applied an update to our system that corrected the commission calculation rate moving forward for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals.

 

Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019. We understand the sensitivity of this issue and have made the decision to forgo recovering commission overpayments prior to the beginning of Sage's current Fiscal Year 2019 (i.e., any commission overpayments which were made prior to October 1, 2018 will not be recovered).

We have calculated the overpayment amount during the current Sage fiscal year from October 1, 2018 through May 2019. To minimize the impact of the overpayment amount due Sage, we are implementing a 6-month repayment period and no cash will need to change hands. Sage will deduct 6 equal installments of the Fiscal Year 2019 overpayment amount due from your monthly partner commission payment starting with July's commission.

 

Before communicating this information directly to you, our sales operations team reviewed and validated the effected transactions, to ensure we are providing you with accurate details. Attached to this email communication is a file containing the transaction details used to calculate the overpayment value for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. There is no action needed on your part to start the deduction of the 6 equal installments. If you prefer instead to resolve this with a single repayment of the total overpayment due to Sage, please reach out to me for assistance.

 

We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we appreciate your understanding of this situation.  Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 

Sincerely,

Lorna Stoecker

Credit and Collections Analyst

Channel Partner Division

SAGE

Lorna.Stoecker@Sage.com

678-280-5000  X330345

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

Apparently Sage doesn't believe in testing their internal programs. We know of a group of consultants who can help with that. Why not ask the former Global CEO to pay for this out of his $2 million, since he should have insisted programs be​ tested so Sage doesn't unnecessarily lose money?

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 14:11
From: Pam Scott
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

I received the notification too.  GRRR

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Original Message------

Dear Sage Partner,

 

Sage is working on building a great SaaS company for our customers, our partners and our colleagues alike.  We are committed to providing our partners with the best experience, just like the way we serve our customers, and at times, we know we miss the mark on providing you with this level of experience.

 

Regrettably, we are writing to inform you of a systems error that has affected your commission calculation for certain Sage transactions. Dating back to October of 2017, our IT system used to calculate partner commissions was incorrectly calculating partner commissions for Sage 100cloud & Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. The commission calculation logic incorrectly used the installed base margin rate for the monthly renewal instead of the subscription renewal margin rate of 30% for the first year. On May 10, 2019, we applied an update to our system that corrected the commission calculation rate moving forward for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals.

 

Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019. We understand the sensitivity of this issue and have made the decision to forgo recovering commission overpayments prior to the beginning of Sage's current Fiscal Year 2019 (i.e., any commission overpayments which were made prior to October 1, 2018 will not be recovered).

We have calculated the overpayment amount during the current Sage fiscal year from October 1, 2018 through May 2019. To minimize the impact of the overpayment amount due Sage, we are implementing a 6-month repayment period and no cash will need to change hands. Sage will deduct 6 equal installments of the Fiscal Year 2019 overpayment amount due from your monthly partner commission payment starting with July's commission.

 

Before communicating this information directly to you, our sales operations team reviewed and validated the effected transactions, to ensure we are providing you with accurate details. Attached to this email communication is a file containing the transaction details used to calculate the overpayment value for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. There is no action needed on your part to start the deduction of the 6 equal installments. If you prefer instead to resolve this with a single repayment of the total overpayment due to Sage, please reach out to me for assistance.

 

We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we appreciate your understanding of this situation.  Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 

Sincerely,

Lorna Stoecker

Credit and Collections Analyst

Channel Partner Division

SAGE

Lorna.Stoecker@Sage.com

678-280-5000  X330345

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

We just noticed this ( or something similar)  on one of our larger commissions. We hadn't been double-checking Sage's math because with their new subscription billing we don't see the actual invoice only the commission $ so it's easy to overlook.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:09
From: John Hoyt
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Apparently Sage doesn't believe in testing their internal programs. We know of a group of consultants who can help with that. Why not ask the former Global CEO to pay for this out of his $2 million, since he should have insisted programs be​ tested so Sage doesn't unnecessarily lose money?

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 14:11
From: Pam Scott
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

I received the notification too.  GRRR

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Original Message------

Dear Sage Partner,

 

Sage is working on building a great SaaS company for our customers, our partners and our colleagues alike.  We are committed to providing our partners with the best experience, just like the way we serve our customers, and at times, we know we miss the mark on providing you with this level of experience.

 

Regrettably, we are writing to inform you of a systems error that has affected your commission calculation for certain Sage transactions. Dating back to October of 2017, our IT system used to calculate partner commissions was incorrectly calculating partner commissions for Sage 100cloud & Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. The commission calculation logic incorrectly used the installed base margin rate for the monthly renewal instead of the subscription renewal margin rate of 30% for the first year. On May 10, 2019, we applied an update to our system that corrected the commission calculation rate moving forward for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals.

 

Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019. We understand the sensitivity of this issue and have made the decision to forgo recovering commission overpayments prior to the beginning of Sage's current Fiscal Year 2019 (i.e., any commission overpayments which were made prior to October 1, 2018 will not be recovered).

We have calculated the overpayment amount during the current Sage fiscal year from October 1, 2018 through May 2019. To minimize the impact of the overpayment amount due Sage, we are implementing a 6-month repayment period and no cash will need to change hands. Sage will deduct 6 equal installments of the Fiscal Year 2019 overpayment amount due from your monthly partner commission payment starting with July's commission.

 

Before communicating this information directly to you, our sales operations team reviewed and validated the effected transactions, to ensure we are providing you with accurate details. Attached to this email communication is a file containing the transaction details used to calculate the overpayment value for Sage 100cloud and Sage 300cloud monthly subscription migration renewals. There is no action needed on your part to start the deduction of the 6 equal installments. If you prefer instead to resolve this with a single repayment of the total overpayment due to Sage, please reach out to me for assistance.

 

We deeply apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we appreciate your understanding of this situation.  Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

 

Sincerely,

Lorna Stoecker

Credit and Collections Analyst

Channel Partner Division

SAGE

Lorna.Stoecker@Sage.com

678-280-5000  X330345

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

The offices that joined 'affilaites'/Master VARs - are they getting dinged too since goes back a couple of years? 

What are the overpays (or in @Therese Logeais case, the underpayments too), running, a few dollars or is it more? 
​

------------------------------
Moira Goggin
Chismet Consulting Corp.
Long Beach CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value. 

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

Perfection is not a part of the human condition, certainly, but when I've heard (from multiple sources) that pricing and subscriptions have been managed (recently) via Excel spreadsheets, I am less forgiving of errors.  I don't blame the admin staff at all... the responsibility for such issues is with management, for not giving them proper tools / implementing appropriate checks and balances.  Whimsical pricing is difficult, but not impossible to manage accurately... and when there is high risk of human errors: keep an eye on things.
One of my first real jobs out of university was doing internal audits for a large corporation, focused on their manual billing system (10% random sample, monthly).  I can't understand how a company the size of Sage lets manual billing errors last for years without detection.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:51
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value.

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

I agree with @Kevin Moyes - depending on materiality ( it probably isn't ) this might be career-ending for one or more people in Sage finance.​ It's possible the issue is related only to some 100 to 100cloud migration type customers. The one customer I have where I noticed this issue was a fairly recent 100 to 100cloud migration. 


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:21
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Perfection is not a part of the human condition, certainly, but when I've heard (from multiple sources) that pricing and subscriptions have been managed (recently) via Excel spreadsheets, I am less forgiving of errors.  I don't blame the admin staff at all... the responsibility for such issues is with management, for not giving them proper tools / implementing appropriate checks and balances.  Whimsical pricing is difficult, but not impossible to manage accurately... and when there is high risk of human errors: keep an eye on things.
One of my first real jobs out of university was doing internal audits for a large corporation, focused on their manual billing system (10% random sample, monthly).  I can't understand how a company the size of Sage lets manual billing errors last for years without detection.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:51
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value.

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

The materiality is when credit cards are no longer valid and Sage does a poor job of following up, so the customer continues to use the software without paying. The small part of that is the partner commission, but the bulk of it is lost revenue to Sage. Some of these lapses go on for 2-3 years. With something like the SI Bundle, the partner simply orders it again and gets paid tier again.​

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:58
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

I agree with @Kevin Moyes - depending on materiality ( it probably isn't ) this might be career-ending for one or more people in Sage finance.​ It's possible the issue is related only to some 100 to 100cloud migration type customers. The one customer I have where I noticed this issue was a fairly recent 100 to 100cloud migration.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:21
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Perfection is not a part of the human condition, certainly, but when I've heard (from multiple sources) that pricing and subscriptions have been managed (recently) via Excel spreadsheets, I am less forgiving of errors.  I don't blame the admin staff at all... the responsibility for such issues is with management, for not giving them proper tools / implementing appropriate checks and balances.  Whimsical pricing is difficult, but not impossible to manage accurately... and when there is high risk of human errors: keep an eye on things.
One of my first real jobs out of university was doing internal audits for a large corporation, focused on their manual billing system (10% random sample, monthly).  I can't understand how a company the size of Sage lets manual billing errors last for years without detection.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:51
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value.

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

Here is what the customer gets the day AFTER the renewal date if their card on file doesn't go through:
"Your Sage 100cloud Subscription expired 07/15/2019.  The credit card on file declined, so we are unable to renew the plan.  I have attached the current invoice that is due.  Please advise how you wish you take care of this to avoid losing access to your software.  Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks."

 
Most actual subscription companies check their cards on file in advance and send you a notice that your card on file is expired 10-30 days before the renewal date...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 18:56
From: John Hoyt
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The materiality is when credit cards are no longer valid and Sage does a poor job of following up, so the customer continues to use the software without paying. The small part of that is the partner commission, but the bulk of it is lost revenue to Sage. Some of these lapses go on for 2-3 years. With something like the SI Bundle, the partner simply orders it again and gets paid tier again.​

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:58
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

I agree with @Kevin Moyes - depending on materiality ( it probably isn't ) this might be career-ending for one or more people in Sage finance.​ It's possible the issue is related only to some 100 to 100cloud migration type customers. The one customer I have where I noticed this issue was a fairly recent 100 to 100cloud migration.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:21
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Perfection is not a part of the human condition, certainly, but when I've heard (from multiple sources) that pricing and subscriptions have been managed (recently) via Excel spreadsheets, I am less forgiving of errors.  I don't blame the admin staff at all... the responsibility for such issues is with management, for not giving them proper tools / implementing appropriate checks and balances.  Whimsical pricing is difficult, but not impossible to manage accurately... and when there is high risk of human errors: keep an eye on things.
One of my first real jobs out of university was doing internal audits for a large corporation, focused on their manual billing system (10% random sample, monthly).  I can't understand how a company the size of Sage lets manual billing errors last for years without detection.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:51
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value.

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

With most great SaaS companies, I get 30-60 day reminders of card expiration. If nobody checked commissions for two years I guess it's possible they haven't yet thought of checking card expirations.

Serious question: Who did Sage hire to oversee this area? Shouldn't they have had this type of experience and knowledge to manage expired cards, etc?

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 05:56
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Here is what the customer gets the day AFTER the renewal date if their card on file doesn't go through:
"Your Sage 100cloud Subscription expired 07/15/2019.  The credit card on file declined, so we are unable to renew the plan.  I have attached the current invoice that is due.  Please advise how you wish you take care of this to avoid losing access to your software.  Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks."

Most actual subscription companies check their cards on file in advance and send you a notice that your card on file is expired 10-30 days before the renewal date...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 18:56
From: John Hoyt
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The materiality is when credit cards are no longer valid and Sage does a poor job of following up, so the customer continues to use the software without paying. The small part of that is the partner commission, but the bulk of it is lost revenue to Sage. Some of these lapses go on for 2-3 years. With something like the SI Bundle, the partner simply orders it again and gets paid tier again.​

------------------------------
John Hoyt
Forming Solutions: john.hoyt@formingsolutions.com
Next Level Manufacturing Consulting Group: johnh@nextlevelMCG.com


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:58
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

I agree with @Kevin Moyes - depending on materiality ( it probably isn't ) this might be career-ending for one or more people in Sage finance.​ It's possible the issue is related only to some 100 to 100cloud migration type customers. The one customer I have where I noticed this issue was a fairly recent 100 to 100cloud migration.


------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 17:21
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Perfection is not a part of the human condition, certainly, but when I've heard (from multiple sources) that pricing and subscriptions have been managed (recently) via Excel spreadsheets, I am less forgiving of errors.  I don't blame the admin staff at all... the responsibility for such issues is with management, for not giving them proper tools / implementing appropriate checks and balances.  Whimsical pricing is difficult, but not impossible to manage accurately... and when there is high risk of human errors: keep an eye on things.
One of my first real jobs out of university was doing internal audits for a large corporation, focused on their manual billing system (10% random sample, monthly).  I can't understand how a company the size of Sage lets manual billing errors last for years without detection.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:51
From: Myron Stevenson
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Defense of Sage - It is unfair to expect that Sage's internal accounting software be fault free because Sage just happens to be a publisher of accounting software. Further more, that Sage or any partner didn't detect these errors earlier is an indication that the commission rules are difficult understand and implement and that all parties largely accepted calculations at face value.

And why would any one question the commissions? They are whatever Sage determines they are. That's the real issue. The revenue stream that follows from Sage is subject to the whims and designs of Sage's management and it is not a secure source of revenue to build and sustain a business. We have witnessed Microsoft's recent misstep with its partner channel; however, the step back Microsoft made should not be viewed as a permanent victory for its channel. It was only round one. Expect other attempts to achieve the desired outcomes the company seeks.





------------------------------
Myron Stevenson
Consultant
Clearis Consulting, Inc
Duluth, MN
218-525-6720


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:16
From: Kevin Moyes
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

IMO Sage is not a SaaS company, or even a software company.  They are a marketing company, who apparently doesn't know how to do basic accounting for their core revenue streams.

------------------------------
Kevin Moyes
Technical Systems Analyst
Munjal White Consulting Co.
Toronto ON


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:06
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

And how do they think they can build a "great SaaS Company" if they can't bill customers or pay commissions properly?

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 16:05
From: Phil McIntosh
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

Meanwhile they have had an issue with not paying Sage Fixed Assets commissions but they say they are NOT going to pay the missing back commissions on SFA...I think it would be a good idea if all the "new BPAC nominees" formally declined participation...or maybe a public petition like the M$ channel did...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:56
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

We think we picked up on one only because the commission $ was suddenly different each month for two or three months.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:52
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In looking at the detail, they weren't even consistently overpaying. I actually have two payments that were underpaid!

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-18-2019 15:41
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

LOL - so, wait, nobody at Sage caught this error for almost two full years? No partner caught it and mentioned it to Sage? Something seems odd here.

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com
------------------------------

In addition to the problem of not paying the correct commission to the resellers and charging the end user the correct amount (both of which are very hard for the reseller to police) is the fact that Sage also neglects to send ANY renewal to the end user but DOES update the subscription keys.  Thus the user gets an extra year of FREE use.  The monthly renewals are painful as well.  Sometimes we get the commission credit, sometimes we have to call for it.

In the past two years, I have had two clients get a free year from Sage due to their neglect.  Two clients, about 9K in missed revenue.  And I missed out on commission.

So if I have had two misses, imagine Sage as a whole.  Missed revenue could be in the millions......

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com
------------------------------

@Jeff Schwenk not saying that free years aren't happening but I haven't seen them ( yet ). Could it be that the customer has the CC on file and didn't notice the Sage charge? 

 ​

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:01
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In addition to the problem of not paying the correct commission to the resellers and charging the end user the correct amount (both of which are very hard for the reseller to police) is the fact that Sage also neglects to send ANY renewal to the end user but DOES update the subscription keys.  Thus the user gets an extra year of FREE use.  The monthly renewals are painful as well.  Sometimes we get the commission credit, sometimes we have to call for it.

In the past two years, I have had two clients get a free year from Sage due to their neglect.  Two clients, about 9K in missed revenue.  And I missed out on commission.

So if I have had two misses, imagine Sage as a whole.  Missed revenue could be in the millions......

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com

I had a case last fall where Sage realized in late October that they had failed to collect a renewal from January, despite the customer calling in February and saying "shouldn't I have had a charge on my credit card last month?"  Sage's initial communication to the customer was to "ungrandfather" them from the conversion from perpetual rate and jump their annual amount from $6000 to $14,000.  We managed to get them to see reason about that, fully expecting them to bill it as of the January 2018 renewal date.  Their system must not allow that (or users don't know how) because the renewal date got reset to November...can't wait to see what random amount appears on their invoice this year...

------------------------------
Phil McIntosh
President
Friendly Systems, Inc.
Asheville NC
678.273.4010 ext 5
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:13
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

@Jeff Schwenk not saying that free years aren't happening but I haven't seen them ( yet ). Could it be that the customer has the CC on file and didn't notice the Sage charge? 

 ​

------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:01
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

In addition to the problem of not paying the correct commission to the resellers and charging the end user the correct amount (both of which are very hard for the reseller to police) is the fact that Sage also neglects to send ANY renewal to the end user but DOES update the subscription keys.  Thus the user gets an extra year of FREE use.  The monthly renewals are painful as well.  Sometimes we get the commission credit, sometimes we have to call for it.

In the past two years, I have had two clients get a free year from Sage due to their neglect.  Two clients, about 9K in missed revenue.  And I missed out on commission.

So if I have had two misses, imagine Sage as a whole.  Missed revenue could be in the millions......

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com

The subject line was our account number followed by: Sage Partner Commission Error.

I believe it is only on Monthly subscription migrations. They continued to pay our regular M&S margins rather than the 30% on first year migrations (or some such thing). As others have said, it is way too difficult to keep track of these things. The first couple of months, we got 29% thus the reimbursements. The following month, it increased to over 30%, thus the corrections. Are we really supposed to track each month's margin rate? This is in the final month of the year; sorry, but I'm a bit busy at that time of year. 

A big complaint is that they were encouraging us to migrate perpetual customers to 100c yet THEY can't figure out what to do once they have? Yep, someone should have tested/figured this out way before May of 2019....

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com
------------------------------

Paying the M&S rate, sheesh.  OK, I'll BOLO for that.  I reconcile mine every month, but I may not remember to notify them about over payments. ;-)

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:55
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The subject line was our account number followed by: Sage Partner Commission Error.

I believe it is only on Monthly subscription migrations. They continued to pay our regular M&S margins rather than the 30% on first year migrations (or some such thing). As others have said, it is way too difficult to keep track of these things. The first couple of months, we got 29% thus the reimbursements. The following month, it increased to over 30%, thus the corrections. Are we really supposed to track each month's margin rate? This is in the final month of the year; sorry, but I'm a bit busy at that time of year.

A big complaint is that they were encouraging us to migrate perpetual customers to 100c yet THEY can't figure out what to do once they have? Yep, someone should have tested/figured this out way before May of 2019....

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com

@Therese Logeais My one case I'm aware of matches your experience - it was a migration of a monthly pay 100 customer to monthly pay 100cloud. Same issues too with urging us to migrate people but not having the logistics worked out. I've also experienced the grab back that happens if the customer was monthly pay on perpetual ( which meant that Sage gave the partner the full commission up front)  ​ and then the customer migrates to 100cloud which meant in some cases Sage takes back the unexpired portion of the commission.  Once I caught onto the issue I tried to not do any migrations which required a refund of commission to Sage.

The good thing is that most customers who migrated to 100cloud seem just fine with the migration and the biggest hassle was the initial paperwork ( faxing order forms initially was a game of "did you get the fax", "no?", "let me re-fax").

I'm sure that this whole migration process looked great mapped out on some Sage PPT slide deck. The reality though was that the migrations were a lot of work and there's a lot of leftover cleanups.



------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:55
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The subject line was our account number followed by: Sage Partner Commission Error.

I believe it is only on Monthly subscription migrations. They continued to pay our regular M&S margins rather than the 30% on first year migrations (or some such thing). As others have said, it is way too difficult to keep track of these things. The first couple of months, we got 29% thus the reimbursements. The following month, it increased to over 30%, thus the corrections. Are we really supposed to track each month's margin rate? This is in the final month of the year; sorry, but I'm a bit busy at that time of year.

A big complaint is that they were encouraging us to migrate perpetual customers to 100c yet THEY can't figure out what to do once they have? Yep, someone should have tested/figured this out way before May of 2019....

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com

@Wayne Schulz - No, not an oversight on customer's part.  Customer would call me monthly asking when they were going to be invoiced.  Partner portal showed the new renewal dates, subscription keys had the correct dates, Sage never invoiced them.  They next year when they did bill, they took $600 too much out of the account.  This took numerous emails and about six months to get the refund.

Last month, customer # 2's PR subscription commission arrived.  I looked in my history to compare amount to prior year.  I discovered that prior year's ​​essential subscription credit was missing.  Searched the partner portal for any evidence of it, nothing.  So I sent note to Sage asking for my commission credit because the renewal dates show on the partner portal.  They responded

"Not showing this customer has paid for the 100cloud subscription in 2018  when the renewal was processed it was completed at $0.00 when the customer was switched from 100c Standard to 100c Advanced a $2700.00 migration credit was put on the order in error . So customer never paid the $2700.00 so no commission will be processed unless back payment is collected."

And most recently, the first client above was billed 3K for his non PR renewal.  I warned him that one should be in the mail for PR only.  When the invoice arrived, it was for PR PLUS the previous renewal paid earlier.

Not a happy camper.

So as I said, more than likely, Sage has lost a lot of renewal revenue on this "transition".

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 12:23
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

@Therese Logeais My one case I'm aware of matches your experience - it was a migration of a monthly pay 100 customer to monthly pay 100cloud. Same issues too with urging us to migrate people but not having the logistics worked out. I've also experienced the grab back that happens if the customer was monthly pay on perpetual ( which meant that Sage gave the partner the full commission up front)  ​ and then the customer migrates to 100cloud which meant in some cases Sage takes back the unexpired portion of the commission.  Once I caught onto the issue I tried to not do any migrations which required a refund of commission to Sage.

The good thing is that most customers who migrated to 100cloud seem just fine with the migration and the biggest hassle was the initial paperwork ( faxing order forms initially was a game of "did you get the fax", "no?", "let me re-fax").

I'm sure that this whole migration process looked great mapped out on some Sage PPT slide deck. The reality though was that the migrations were a lot of work and there's a lot of leftover cleanups.



------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:55
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The subject line was our account number followed by: Sage Partner Commission Error.

I believe it is only on Monthly subscription migrations. They continued to pay our regular M&S margins rather than the 30% on first year migrations (or some such thing). As others have said, it is way too difficult to keep track of these things. The first couple of months, we got 29% thus the reimbursements. The following month, it increased to over 30%, thus the corrections. Are we really supposed to track each month's margin rate? This is in the final month of the year; sorry, but I'm a bit busy at that time of year.

A big complaint is that they were encouraging us to migrate perpetual customers to 100c yet THEY can't figure out what to do once they have? Yep, someone should have tested/figured this out way before May of 2019....

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com

Another example:

Customer has SIA. Last year, while their monthly subscriptions were all noted in the service plan area (meaning they were renewed), the customer was NOT invoiced for three months which is a loss of revenue for Sage and a loss of commissions for us. Do I invoice Sage for the lost commissions???

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 13:09
From: Jeff Schwenk
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

@Wayne Schulz - No, not an oversight on customer's part.  Customer would call me monthly asking when they were going to be invoiced.  Partner portal showed the new renewal dates, subscription keys had the correct dates, Sage never invoiced them.  They next year when they did bill, they took $600 too much out of the account.  This took numerous emails and about six months to get the refund.

Last month, customer # 2's PR subscription commission arrived.  I looked in my history to compare amount to prior year.  I discovered that prior year's ​​essential subscription credit was missing.  Searched the partner portal for any evidence of it, nothing.  So I sent note to Sage asking for my commission credit because the renewal dates show on the partner portal.  They responded

"Not showing this customer has paid for the 100cloud subscription in 2018  when the renewal was processed it was completed at $0.00 when the customer was switched from 100c Standard to 100c Advanced a $2700.00 migration credit was put on the order in error . So customer never paid the $2700.00 so no commission will be processed unless back payment is collected."

And most recently, the first client above was billed 3K for his non PR renewal.  I warned him that one should be in the mail for PR only.  When the invoice arrived, it was for PR PLUS the previous renewal paid earlier.

Not a happy camper.

So as I said, more than likely, Sage has lost a lot of renewal revenue on this "transition".

------------------------------
Jeff Schwenk
FORMER 90M Board Member
Bottomline Software, Inc.
Waynesboro VA
540-221-4444
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 12:23
From: Wayne Schulz
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

@Therese Logeais My one case I'm aware of matches your experience - it was a migration of a monthly pay 100 customer to monthly pay 100cloud. Same issues too with urging us to migrate people but not having the logistics worked out. I've also experienced the grab back that happens if the customer was monthly pay on perpetual ( which meant that Sage gave the partner the full commission up front)  ​ and then the customer migrates to 100cloud which meant in some cases Sage takes back the unexpired portion of the commission.  Once I caught onto the issue I tried to not do any migrations which required a refund of commission to Sage.

The good thing is that most customers who migrated to 100cloud seem just fine with the migration and the biggest hassle was the initial paperwork ( faxing order forms initially was a game of "did you get the fax", "no?", "let me re-fax").

I'm sure that this whole migration process looked great mapped out on some Sage PPT slide deck. The reality though was that the migrations were a lot of work and there's a lot of leftover cleanups.



------------------------------
Wayne Schulz - Schulz Consulting - 860-516-8990


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 10:55
From: Therese Logeais
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

The subject line was our account number followed by: Sage Partner Commission Error.

I believe it is only on Monthly subscription migrations. They continued to pay our regular M&S margins rather than the 30% on first year migrations (or some such thing). As others have said, it is way too difficult to keep track of these things. The first couple of months, we got 29% thus the reimbursements. The following month, it increased to over 30%, thus the corrections. Are we really supposed to track each month's margin rate? This is in the final month of the year; sorry, but I'm a bit busy at that time of year.

A big complaint is that they were encouraging us to migrate perpetual customers to 100c yet THEY can't figure out what to do once they have? Yep, someone should have tested/figured this out way before May of 2019....

------------------------------
Therese Logeais, Technology Integrators


Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2019 09:49
From: Rhonda McNamara
Subject: ANOTHER COMMISSION OVERPAYMENT?????

May I ask two questions of those who got these?
1.What was the subject line?  I want to see if we got one and no one noticed.

"Because the Sage Partner program installed base margin rate is higher than the subscription renewal margin rate, this caused Sage to pay a higher commission than actually due for those transactions processed between October 1, 2017 through May 2019"
2. Are they saying they calculated your renewal like it was a new sale to an install base customer?  Like customer already had Sage 100c, and you added the JC module and got commission as if it was the first 12 months, rather than the rate for later months?

------------------------------
==================
Rhonda McNamara
Customer Success Manager
Stewart Technologies, Inc.
rsm@stewarttechnologies.com