General Consultant Discussion

A client purchased User Licenses. Got a quote from Sage, quoted customer, picked up the check. Placed the order and waited. Sage was to generate keys ASAP. Took them literally 14 days. Ordered the 5th received the 19th. But here is the kicker.... Sage then charged the Customer directly for the Cost of the Licenses... not the Price we sold them at. So the customer has paid us the Price, and now has paid Sage our Cost for the licenses. According to our rep ""if they are on subscription that is the way we do things"". Anyone else dealing with this kind of insanity?

Just TRY tracking your margin and tier credit.

Yeah... about that.... I hadn't been and all of a sudden we fell off a tier. We are back on now, but I just looked at a recent Avalara sale, new product to us, Sage charged us the customer pricing. We charged the customer the customer pricing. So wait, we get $000 on a 15k deal? I think someone needs to sell them accounting software that works!

How in the heck did you explain all this to the customer? What a mess!

Oh Jane, that was even better. The client is only hearing from us, sure we have misled them, they have filed a Reseller of Record change. Now that we are working through the kinks, they want to put the change on hold. It just keeps getting better, eh?!??!

But really, your customers aren't being charged directly for new licenses / modules or what have you, are they? Sage is making this up, right?

If it is on 100c, payment goes directly to Sage under either the credit card or ACH on file. If they paid via check originally, then they write a check to Sage. Then, if the stars are all aligned right, you should get paid your margin and receive tier credit . . . eventually.

Three months or so later, I might add, @JohnHoyt

No wonder they have so many issues. That just doesn't make sense.

I don't mind the direct billing/payment as long as we get margin and tier, because we also don't have to deal with customers who always want a ""deal"". I just tell them they have to work with Sage, and they will not discount. One of the issues I have, however, is when the order is completed, they e-mail the customer and not us, and they do not send out the order confirmation that includes the new keys. I e-mailed the sales ops person and told her I need to be copied on all those e-mails. The response was: ""This request is complete and the keys are available on the partner portal. The order confirmations for the 100 c product line are all sent to the customer. This is system generated and can't be changed due to the invoices being paid directly by the customer. If you are having problem viewing the partner portal please contact the partner service team for further assistance."" If there is any phrase I cannot stand its ""can't be changed"".

@ThereseLogeais I finally had everything posted to tier as of last night! And tier move as of Monday. In case you didn't know this, Saturday is when they do the tier moves so they are effective each Monday. I never knew the significance of the ""Saturday update.

Do you feel like this is all just one big step to cutting out the reseller? Because I don't see anything that 100C is offering that is all that much better than 100 was. There is that whole horizon view that it will get better, but it hasn't yet.

@JohnHoyt Except, how many times are they NOT on the portal, or generated incorrectly, and the customer didn't get the email. I am going on 72 hours to have new SI keys generated for a 100c Gold client because they didn't 'purchase' SI... even though the basics are included with gold subscription pricing. 3 phones calls and a screenshot it took, and now I am still waiting for the keys to ""show up in the portal."" We have another that is completely locked out of payroll because the keys were wrong. What a nightmare! I was told by Sage Tools that they moved where all the keys are stored/generated and have had nothing but problems ever since.

@AnnetteEgbert Seems the issue is that Sage charged the customer @ cost, not retail. If Sage would have charged the customer retail, then you could have refunded the customer and waited for your margin.

SOOOO Looking forward to the Road Ahead discussion at MOTM this year!

Jane, the more I have gone back and forth on this... I'm not so sure of our margin on the deal. Sage short charged them 8k, but that looks like it could be the difference in prorated subscription. So maybe they charge that monthly from now till August? I looked like margin... but .....

I'm sorry @AnnetteEgbert but that is the dilemma all along. WTH ARE they charging the customer???

My favorite part about 90minds, I'm not alone in this! Can you imagine going through things like this without such a great group to bounce things off of? Thanks!

It's almost like AA meetings (not that I would know, but I watch movies) ""Hi, I'm John, and it's been 1 day since Sage screwed up an order.

I haven't had that happen, that stinks. I don't even know how they could make you whole again! Irreparable damage. I've had several bad quotes but usually caught it.

Subscription sucks.

Sage sucks.

Actually, Sage management sucks. They are the ones ultimately charged with creating a workflow that supports U.K. marching orders. Instead it appears that for the past year the NA execs either have left or taken to hiding under their desks instead of dealing with this terrible subscription rollout.

This continues to fit Sage management. https://youtu.be/k5ba1OKY7Xc

You may recall that just 3 months ago, one of my customers contacted Sage to get the pricing for 100c and asked how much they paid for their plan last year because they couldn't find that info in their system. She forgot she paid me and not Sage. The Sage customer service person emailed my customer OUR reseller invoice, showing cost. And yes, @AnnetteEgbert, I am *highly* suspicious that Sage's plan is to cut us out. Driving a wedge between the customer and the business partner is one tool at their disposal.

I think it is obvious that Sage is setting the stage for going direct without us.. Remember the ""Golden"" rule - He who has the gold makes the rules......... Just a matter of time until they kill the golden goose. Many people buy Sage not because of Sage but because of the quality resellers. We have a stake in our client's success. Sage not so much. Churn and burn!

Here is some follow up information I just heard about and not from Sage. Sage now has a Direct Sales Group that includes 4 salespeople, specifically for Sage 100/100c. It seems that is was recently created.

@JohnHoyt I recently discovered that one of my customers changed to 100c last summer. I had no idea. Apparently Sage contacted them and switched them over. I am still trying to determine if I received commission on the deal. I don't think I did. Further, the Eu now has unlimited Sage support. So .... how am I supposed to make any money when Sage is going behind my back and selling into my accounts, cutting me out of the commission, and not even communicating the transaction? Disturbing.

Transparency is not in Sage's vocabulary.

@DougHiggs - Based on what you describe, how much did you really use??? End user sees little value for local support and is comfortable with waiting for Sage to answer the phone to provide a limited answer to something. I have a client very similar sounding. Pays 10K for support a year. Refuses to move off SB 2003 server, sees no need to migrate from v4.3 and is horribly inefficient in their day to day processes and procedures. I answer the phone when they call a couple times a year with SPECIFIC requests for udf's changes to Crystal, etc. I suggest we start making plans to upgrade server, software, and business practice review and they say no thank you. Someday they WILL call in a panic. Not sure how much I will charge then.

@JeffSchwenk Not exactly sure how you figured that out, but you are spot on with this one. They have been a customer for eight or nine years and it has always been a do-it-yourself account. I haven't billed squat in eight years. They only call me when they are desperate... Not much really lost. It is more of the principle of the tactics of Sage. Actions speak louder than words... Sage talks about how valuable the channel is yet they are poaching our accounts.

We have the choice of firing those types of customers, but there is always a reseller or ""consultant"" that will step in to help them. They may not get quality support or recommendations, but there is no motivation to the customer when those ""consultants"" and Sage are there. I am also amazed when we can clearly prove savings, benefits and ROI, but the customer still will not budge.